Rogue/ranger or rogue/warlock

[mkill]

First of all, welcome to D&D!

That said, I think you are overthinking this way too much. As a new player, there is so much to learn and pick up, don't expect to soak it all in before your first session. If your fellow players are worth their salt, they will be nice to you and help you out until you get more familiar with everything. Don't be afraid to ask them questions! Especially your DM should see it as his duty to teach you.

As for your character, Rogue is a good, classic choice.

Don't worry about hybrids, multiclassing and all that - doing this has a cost that is better spent on other things.

Also, don't worry about making all the wrong choices - have a look at PHB 1 page 28, "Retraining". You can always switch out feats and powers later. So just pick feats and powers that look good - if you don't like them after all, just switch them out when you reach level 2.

Now, there is one thing that you should learn as a Rogue - Combat Advantage. Your best class feature, Sneak Attack (page 117), depends on it. Read the chapter "Combat advantage" on page 279. Don't worry if you don't understand it all yet, you'll get the hang of it after two or three sessions.
The easiest way to gain combat advantage against an enemy is flanking (page 285) - in short, making sure that the fighter or another party member is on the other side of the monster.

If you're a new player in my party, with a Rogue, and you already know how to flank and Sneak Attack, I'd welcome you with open arms.

But you know what the most important lesson is? Don't worry too much, relax and enjoy the game!!

 

[pemerton]

Don't worry about hybrids, multiclassing and all that - doing this has a cost that is better spent on other things.

I guess I'm not sure that this is true as far as MCing is concerned. Multi-class feats are quite good: skill training + perk!

 

[Rannan]

Ive played a lot of other MMO and RP games before so I know basic things like flanking and all that good stuff, and I've always played a rogue type class which I've always enjoyed. I dabbled in playing as an archer in other games but I was hoping ranger archer in D&D could be more fun than a rogue if you play it right. Everything I hear is that it's basically point and shoot but I feel that if you think about it and put more thought into it, DM willing, it can be more fun. For example, I think it would be more fun if I could talk to the DM and set something up like I can shoot enemies in the legs to slow them down and maybe he could just use a higher check to see if I got it or not. Or I could use my arrows for more than just killing people. But I really like to focus on stealth so I want to make sure I can keep my stealth on and off through encounters so I'm not just standing there shooting. I want a little more tact put into it, so I may try to keep close to get Prime Shot every time and make it more interesting.

I find rogues to be very fun, but I like variety, which makes me leery of the Thief class. It's effective and probably good for a new player, but I like variety and having options. That's one reason I was considering assassin, hoping I'd be able to make poisons or use a garrote to silently take an enemy out. I also like being able to have a variety in weaponry for melee so that's why I was thinking brutal scoundrel as a rogue. The more I think about it the more it seems like I should roll a rogue because I like stealth so much and keeping in it. Maybe I should go artful dodger for more moves to escape and come back in stealth. If I play a rogue, I like to play a hard hitting, hard to hit, always going into stealth kind of rogue. I just kind of like to pop up around the battlefield surprising the enemy and forcing them to defend two directions. I also steal in every game I've played before, I just pickpocket everyone I can or take anything off the enemy I can for gold. I'm not sure how gold works in this game but I feel like I'm always going to be carrying my weight because I don't know what to get rid of.

Based on that, should I possibly roll a TWF ranger who utilizes stealth as frequently as possible or would I be better off rolling a rogue and using rapiers as my weapons? Damage is not the most important thing to me, although it is nice, but being a key team player and off setting the enemy is always nice, along with not dying and being able to take the heat off more important players if I need to, like a cleric or something.

I don't want to do a hybrid because some seem overpowered, some seem underpowered, and few seem to be normal. I also feel they are too complicated for me right now as a beginning player, but an assassin/warlock sounds fun to me. I only want to multiclass if it will help the group, but if I don't need to that's good, pure classes are usually better in my experience (although I do not know if that is the case for D&D).

I'm really leaning towards rogue, I just don't want to choose the wrong beginning path and regret it until my character dies. I'll have to find some guides online and see what their advice and builds are, but I don't want to take anyone's build exactly because I'd like to feel like my character is unique to my wants rather than someone else figuring out the best way to play for my class.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Ive played a lot of other MMO and RP games before so I know basic things like flanking and all that good stuff, and I've always played a rogue type class which I've always enjoyed. I dabbled in playing as an archer in other games but I was hoping ranger archer in D&D could be more fun than a rogue if you play it right. Everything I hear is that it's basically point and shoot but I feel that if you think about it and put more thought into it, DM willing, it can be more fun. For example, I think it would be more fun if I could talk to the DM and set something up like I can shoot enemies in the legs to slow them down and maybe he could just use a higher check to see if I got it or not.

It sounds as if you are looking for the Hunter Ranger from Essentials. No dailies and lacking twin strike. The encounter powers are just the choice between dazing and immobilising. (Immobilise is great at the start of a fight for simply keeping a brute out of the way). But for at wills it's the choice between slowing, sliding, knocking prone, blanketing an area in arrows, and being accurate enough to ignore cover and concealment. The one problem is you don't gain much flexibility when you level (not with effectively five at wills multiplied by two stances you need it much). And in lurking spider stance they out-stealth most rogues.

I want a little more tact put into it, so I may try to keep close to get Prime Shot every time and make it more interesting.

Prime Shot is effective and a challenge to get and keep. For bonus marks wade right into the combat next to the guy your defender has marked and take an attack to provoke the opportunity attack, giving your defender a free swing as the enemy takes their eye off him.

I find rogues to be very fun, but I like variety, which makes me leery of the Thief class. It's effective and probably good for a new player, but I like variety and having options.

The trick with the thief class to having variety is to get combat advantage without tactical trick (or ambush trick (and don't ever take feinting trick - it sucks)). Because that way you can use tricks like Unbalancing Trick (knock people prone), acrobats trick (giving you a climb speed - meaning that for anything climbable by humans you don't need to roll), thug's trick (pinning a flanked victim where he is), or sneaks trick (needing less cover than most people to hide, putting you right at the head of the stealth-pack). The options are almost backwards from other classes. And with seven trained skills, superb stealth, and a climb speed you have more options out of combat than almost anyone else.

Based on that, should I possibly roll a TWF ranger who utilizes stealth as frequently as possible or would I be better off rolling a rogue and using rapiers as my weapons?

Rogue and daggers. (Or thief and shortsword).

 

[Breaks]

Ive played a lot of other MMO and RP games before so I know basic things like flanking and all that good stuff, and I've always played a rogue type class which I've always enjoyed. I dabbled in playing as an archer in other games but I was hoping ranger archer in D&D could be more fun than a rogue if you play it right. Everything I hear is that it's basically point and shoot but I feel that if you think about it and put more thought into it, DM willing, it can be more fun. For example, I think it would be more fun if I could talk to the DM and set something up like I can shoot enemies in the legs to slow them down and maybe he could just use a higher check to see if I got it or not. Or I could use my arrows for more than just killing people. But I really like to focus on stealth so I want to make sure I can keep my stealth on and off through encounters so I'm not just standing there shooting. I want a little more tact put into it, so I may try to keep close to get Prime Shot every time and make it more interesting.

4e is very, very specific with its combat rules. You cannot do anything your powers do not specifically state you can, unless your DM bends rules in your favor. Which, in general, he shouldn't, because letting you just up and slow people with your arrows nullifies the entire point of the hunter class and the hobbling strike feat. Letting you fill a wall with enough arrows that it becomes significantly easier to climb nullifies the point of the Archer's Stairway utility power. Using an arrow to pin an ally's cloak to the side of the pit they just fell down, catching them, nullifies the point of the Arrow of the Savior utility power. If there's a terrain feature that looks useful, like a stack of logs at the top of a hill, or a heavy chandelier above your enemies, absolutely ask your DM if you can attempt to knock them down with a well-placed arrow. But be careful when playing the "DM may I?" game.

All that said, control-focused archer rangers can be a blast to play, whether using the archer ranger or the hunter as a base. The hunter is easier, and does all you want it to as a baseline, but the archer ranger can be built to supersede it in every way.

As a new player, I would /highly/ recommend springing for DDI, even if only for one month (it's $10), for access to the online compendium and character builder. The books are not laid out in a noob-friendly manner and there's a lot of them, so just playing with the options in the CB is a great way to familiarize yourself with what's out there. And building characters can be a lot of fun!

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

I just want to point a couple things out...

It sounds as if you are looking for the Hunter Ranger from Essentials. No dailies and lacking twin strike.

There should be a big asterisk here that states, "unless you're human," because you can still take TS as a Hunter with your human bonus at-will. It gives a Hunter a bit more damage as an option.

The trick with the thief class to having variety is to get combat advantage without tactical trick (or ambush trick (and don't ever take feinting trick - it sucks)).

Another asterisk here. If you start with a background that grants a martial WP (that you use to take Rapier), then slot Flash of the Blade, you can use Feinting Trick to get bonus Charisma mod damage AND still deal SA damage, though you do it without the benefit of the accuracy boost from CA. Though Thieves are already very accurate, so this shouldn't be a problem. It also gives an option for something to do if you are the only thing adjacent to your target, making CA harder to get in the firstplace. This combo works particularly well for +Dex/+Cha races, obviously, and has the added plus of working well with charging.

 

[Breaks]

I just want to point a couple things out...
There should be a big asterisk here that states, "unless you're human," because you can still take TS as a Hunter with your human bonus at-will. It gives a Hunter a bit more damage as an option.

Yeah. And properly supported, Twin Strike will always beat Clever Shot, even as a control mechanism. Here's a listing of feats that add control effects on to ranger attacks:

Hobbling Strike (only on the real ranger, as it trades 1 quarry die for slow EONT)
Mark of Storm (requires a lightning bow, adds slide 1 to EACH hit)
World Serpent's Grasp (prones a slowed target on a hit. this pairs very nicely with either Hobbling Strike or Clever Shot, making round two CS a choice between Slide 2+Prone and Slow+Prone, or TS Slow+Prone on round 1 if both hit)
Impending Doom Style (Twin Strike only, applies a -2 penalty to attack rolls if both attacks hit)

With all of the above, Twin Strike becomes 2[W]+2*mods+slide 2+slow+prone+-2atk. Impending Doom is actually hardly needed if you take the other three (or even just Hobbling and WSG, if you target the right creatures), as Slow+Prone can keep soldiers out of the fight for quite a long time.

An archer ranger can take the Archery Mastery feat to pick up either Rapid Shot or Clever Shot from the hunter if he wants to, but it's pretty rare that you'll be able to utilize rapid shot to hit more than two targets, and I'd rather use the feat slot to make twin strike better at control than clever shot is anyway.

 

[Gorgoroth]

since you

are noobish, and avoiding hybrid, why bother explaining how BCL Clerics are vastly superior to almost any other hybrid + ranger option.

Let's say you want to be a light-ly armored skirmisher/switch hitter, who can still shoot a bow decently. A human, say, or a half-orc. Pick up at level 1 TWF technique and hobbling strike, or a double weapon and wait for paragon for prime shot + prime punisher and focus on other feats first. (Cunning stalker, for example. Or superior will/fort/imp defenses).

At level 1 you'd have 13+3+2 in hide armor = 18, with speed 6, or you could have speed 5 in scale with AC 19. At level 1. For no investment in feats. You can grab all immediate action or minor action cleric powers, meaning your dpr doesn't go down much since a ranger is mostly twin-striking + minor striking as often as possible, as others have said. At paragon you can go morninglord for insane DPR, or go the frost + prime punisher route + Pathfinder PP for insane durability. By level 16, when hide armor + 16 dex + boosts gives the same AC as scale, you can do that or invest in scale spec to get your speed back.

I looked into using Hunter as a str-only guy, or an o-ranger with Rapid Shot and using like a waraxe in each hand (even better as a dwarf). Those are all pretty decent. But Thief tricks are nice to use out of combat, and since I complain a lot about 4e being so combat-centric, perhaps I should just drop it now

ps ranger | BCL cleric is one of the most optimal striker hybrids out there, IMO. esp dwarves. practically unkillable with very good damage too.

 

[Rannan]

I think I'm going to try this build Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible I'm not sure how well it will work but I'm gonna try it as a human. Also, I noticed when I add up the beginning stats of his character they add to 74, whereas my stats I was planning on using add up to 82. I used the method of using 10 for every stat except one, which is eight, so maybe that is why but idk how everyone else does their stats. Is it common to use that method? I'd hate to roll for my stats and get crappy ones

 

[Neonchameleon]

4e pointbuy rules are on page 17 of the PHB, and those are IME the normal rules used. High stats cost an escalating amount, so an 18 before racial costs 16 points, whereas a 16 only costs 9 (out of an allocation of 22).