Rogue sneak attack rules question, now that it's 1/turn

[Sagiro]

So, there has been a (relatively) recent rules change, such that rogues can deal sneak attack damage once per turn. That means they can sneak attack on their own turn, and then sneak attack again if (for instance) a Warlord grants them a bonus attack on the Warlord's turn. A rogue can also get sneak attack damage on opportunity attacks, even if he dealt SA damage on his last turn.

But would the following be rules-legal?

1. On my turn, while I have CA against an enemy, I use Low Slash, which is a minor action. I hit, and deal sneak attack damage.

2. With my standard action, I use Ready, to use (for instance) Piercing Strike. My trigger is: "the next turn starts."

3. My turn ends.

4. The next character's turn starts, triggering my Readied action. I attack. Since it's someone else's turn, I get my sneak attack damage again.

That seems like it would work, though I can imagine that, technically, the Ready action simply "stretches" my original turn out, and so it's not really someone else's turn after all. Is there some official ruling on that?

Thanks!

-Sagiro

 

[Aulirophile]

RAW, it works. Readied actions go off as Immediate Reactions (which cannot be on your turn, so).

Your trigger is somewhat questionable, as it is not an observable in-game event, but you can ready to trigger off you saying "go" which is a free action and therefore takeable at any time.

I wouldn't do it though. Once you start getting into Readied Action events combat can look a lot like this.

"All the Marked Monsters ready an action to charge the wimp in the back on the Defender's Turn (via any of the methods available to make sure they can go exactly then, that won't be the actual trigger)." Defender goes, all the the monsters run past him and he can't do anything about it, even OA them, because you cannot do things like that on your turn. Wimp in the back dies. Wimp in the back was your leader, and you TPK.

TL;DR: Yes it works. It also happens to be a bad idea because the DM can benefit more from it, and if you start doing it, so will he. Then you will die.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Yeah, Just Say No to readied action cheese.

Rogues are plenty powerful without resorting to that.

 

[Sagiro]

Yeah, Just Say No to readied action cheese.

Rogues are plenty powerful without resorting to that.

Fair enough. It happens that in my current party, none of the other characters can grant me off-turn attacks, and the way our combats play out, I average about one opportunity attack every 4 battles or so.

I noticed the rule change, which seems to be designed to bump rogues' DPS up a notch, and was thinking of some way to take advantage of it. But, yeah, my rogue does seem like he does fine already. We just hit Paragon Tier, and at 11th level, with Combat Advantage, I'm +19 to hit and do 3d8+1d4+15 on my at-wills.

Thanks for the responses!

 

[Aulirophile]

Fair enough. It happens that in my current party, none of the other characters can grant me off-turn attacks, and the way our combats play out, I average about one opportunity attack every 4 battles or so.

I noticed the rule change, which seems to be designed to bump rogues' DPS up a notch, and was thinking of some way to take advantage of it. But, yeah, my rogue does seem like he does fine already. We just hit Paragon Tier, and at 11th level, with Combat Advantage, I'm +19 to hit and do 3d8+1d4+15 on my at-wills.

Thanks for the responses!

It was more intended for Thieves.

That accuracy is a little low for a Rogue.... >.>

+5 (1/2 level)+2 (Light Blade Expertise)+3 (Weapon)+4 (Dagger+RWT)+2 (CA)+6 (Dex)+1 (Nimble Blade) is +23 and is fairly standard. Unless you aren't playing a Dex race, which would knock it down by 1. Or if you are but didn't start with a 20 in Dex.

+15 to damage sounds about right. +2 Item Bonus, +6 Dex, +3 Weapon, +4 Str from Brutal Scoundrel? Or.. +2 from Light Blade Expertise's secondary benefit and something else.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

I see Low Slash as more of a do-over for the rare occasion when you miss with your Standard Action attack, a cheap way to get rid of a bothersome minion, or a last "stab" at knocking off an enemy that you think is near death. And hey, if you have amped up your crit chance, who knows what extra fun it might generate?

Or, you can go with the readied action ploy and hope your DM doesnt decide to slash your tires...

 

[Prestidigitalis]

I noticed the rule change, which seems to be designed to bump rogues' DPS up a notch, and was thinking of some way to take advantage of it.

Agile Opportunist might buy you an extra OA now and then. Stonefoot Reprisal, for Dwarves. And you can always try to find a ranged opponent who happens to be prone, or maybe convince an ally to set that up for you - that might occasionally get you a free shot. Also, if you haven't already committed to a different multiclass feat, there is always Battle Awareness.

 

[Sagiro]

It was more intended for Thieves.

That accuracy is a little low for a Rogue.... >.>

+5 (1/2 level)+2 (Light Blade Expertise)+3 (Weapon)+4 (Dagger+RWT)+2 (CA)+6 (Dex)+1 (Nimble Blade) is +23 and is fairly standard. Unless you aren't playing a Dex race, which would knock it down by 1. Or if you are but didn't start with a 20 in Dex.

+15 to damage sounds about right. +2 Item Bonus, +6 Dex, +3 Weapon, +4 Str from Brutal Scoundrel? Or.. +2 from Light Blade Expertise's secondary benefit and something else.

In our game, the DM (Piratecat) disallows the various Expertise feats, but lowers the defenses of all monsters by 1/2/3 to compensate. He also gives us a +1 to hit if we describe our attacks in particularly evocative detail. So, I guess you could say I'm the equivalent of +22:

+5 (1/2 level) +4 (dagger prof. + RWT) +2 (CA) +1 (Nimble Blade) +5 (Dex) +2 (Magic weapon) +2 (lowered monster defenses) +1 (describe attacks) = +22

Damage: +5 (Dex) + 2 (Magic weapon) +4 (Brutal Scoundrel) +2 (weapon property) +2 (Weapon Focus) = +15

I'm playing a large human, and I wanted his Str to be nearly as high as his Dex, so I didn't max out Dex from the start. He's more of a brute than a scoundrel.

You can see his full sheet here, if you're interested: Cobalt, Level 11

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Actually it is no cheese... the rogue depends om SA.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

You can see his full sheet here, if you're interested: Cobalt, Level 11

Wait -- you want to maximize your out-of-turn attacks to get more SA damage, but you aren't using Riposte Strike? Heroic Effort is nice, but I'm not sure it's that good.