Can anybody give me some input as to the game balance of sneak attack damage applying to every hit in the attack sequence? I'm about to start a campaign with a PC rogue and a soulknife as two of the four characters. Both are going to have the Tumble skill, and will be flanking opponents constantly. I am a little apprehensive about the massive damage totals from the rogue every round...
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Rogue Sneak Attacks
- Thread starter Syntallah
- Start date
JustKim
First Post
Iterative attacks often don't hit, unless high-level PCs are fighting bruisers like trolls exclusively. The attraction of iterative attacks is that critical hits are more likely, but for sneak attacks it's not an issue. If your Rogue is fighting with one weapon, their damage will fall behind an optimized melee fighter like a weapon specialist or a Barbarian. If they're a two-weapon Rogue with dips in Ranger, Fighter or Barbarian, then yes, it will be nasty.
snip
Therein lies my problem. The PC in question is a gestalt rogue/ranger, and is pursuing the two-weapon fighting track. The campaign is set in Eberon, and the PC is a shifter. The player has come up with some interesting background, and the character is sound. It's just the sneak attack stuff that has me worried.
JustKim said:
Therein lies my problem. The PC in question is a gestalt rogue/ranger, and is pursuing the two-weapon fighting track. The campaign is set in Eberon, and the PC is a shifter. The player has come up with some interesting background, and the character is sound. It's just the sneak attack stuff that has me worried.
Aust Diamondew
First Post
Well you're playing a gestalt game, so ofc his PC is going to be strong but a Barbarian/Fighter should be able to whoop just as much butt. Plus have more HP higher AC (not restricted to light armor) and DR.Syntallah said:
I'd think it to be balanced but I don't have much experience in a gestalt game so I wouldn't know.
Crothian
First Post
Syntallah said:
You are the DM. If it proves to be a little too much then get a few good crits on the character to almost kill him so he thinks twice about going into combat so easily like that. Have him face undead, oozes, things that can't be sneak attacked. Shoot him with arrows or hit him with a hold or other will save spell. Sneak attack is good, and gestalt characters are powerful, but everything has its weaknesses.
MonkeyDragon
Explorer
1) Remember that not every attack is likely to hit every round. You'll have some opponents with high ACs that the rogue can't hit all the time.
2) Sprinkle in some bad guys immune to sneak attack. Not so many as to make the player feel his character is being thwarted, but enough to even things out a bit. A few undead here, an ooze or construct there, life is good.
3) Tactics. When the PCs are fighting large numbers of bad guys, have them cluster up. If they are back to back, they'll be harder to flank, and the more in reach of the PCs, the higher the tumble DC. Or they can back into corners or use other objects to keep from being flanked. Enemy spellcasters can cast spells to control the battlefield as well as PCs can.
4) Fight fire with fire, and include some NPCs with their own levels in rogue, enough that they can't be flanked.
2) Sprinkle in some bad guys immune to sneak attack. Not so many as to make the player feel his character is being thwarted, but enough to even things out a bit. A few undead here, an ooze or construct there, life is good.
3) Tactics. When the PCs are fighting large numbers of bad guys, have them cluster up. If they are back to back, they'll be harder to flank, and the more in reach of the PCs, the higher the tumble DC. Or they can back into corners or use other objects to keep from being flanked. Enemy spellcasters can cast spells to control the battlefield as well as PCs can.
4) Fight fire with fire, and include some NPCs with their own levels in rogue, enough that they can't be flanked.
JustKim
First Post
Wow, they're really going all out. Sneak attack damage is dangerous when you have a two-weapon Rogue, but give them full BAB, favored enemy damage and an extra bite attack on top of everything, and you have a character who will dominate melee. This player certainly knows what they're doing and I wouldn't allow it.
Chimera
First Post
I'm playing a Monk/Rogue, and up until recently played a Fighter/Rogue in another campaign.
With lower BAB, I don't hit as much as the pure Fighter types. The Fighter/Rogue was also a two-weapon fighter, which further reduces To Hit in favor of more attacks. Two weapon fighting also tends to use smaller weapons that do less damage.
In both games, there is a high strength, Greatsword wielding Fighter who does WAY more damage than me - consistently. Oh sure, when I get my sneak damage, I get up there, but those guys do it regularly.
Put it this way (for lower levels): Light weapon (d6) + (maybe) 1 or 2d6 sneak and maybe a point or two of strength damage, versus 2d6 for a Greatsword, plus 4 or 6 strength damage ON EVERY HIT, with a much better potential to hit. Which would you rather face?
And again, the Rogue type only gets that bonus damage when flanking, or catching them flat footed, or in other special circumstances; and doesn't get it at all against a lot of potential opponents. Heck, my Fighter/Rogue was in Ravenloft! You know how many opponents he actually got his sneak attack against???
With lower BAB, I don't hit as much as the pure Fighter types. The Fighter/Rogue was also a two-weapon fighter, which further reduces To Hit in favor of more attacks. Two weapon fighting also tends to use smaller weapons that do less damage.
In both games, there is a high strength, Greatsword wielding Fighter who does WAY more damage than me - consistently. Oh sure, when I get my sneak damage, I get up there, but those guys do it regularly.
Put it this way (for lower levels): Light weapon (d6) + (maybe) 1 or 2d6 sneak and maybe a point or two of strength damage, versus 2d6 for a Greatsword, plus 4 or 6 strength damage ON EVERY HIT, with a much better potential to hit. Which would you rather face?
And again, the Rogue type only gets that bonus damage when flanking, or catching them flat footed, or in other special circumstances; and doesn't get it at all against a lot of potential opponents. Heck, my Fighter/Rogue was in Ravenloft! You know how many opponents he actually got his sneak attack against???
