Rogue: Specializes in Tripping

[Mistah J]

Hey all,

I have a player who wants their rogue character to focus on trip attacks. There are a couple of other straight-heavy-hitting types in the party so she figures this is a good way to stay useful in combat without overlapping the roles of others.

Now, I know that there are plenty of crazy builds for those who want to trip out there that involve odd race choices with oversized spiked chains and obscure magic.

I don't want that.

All I'm looking for are some feats, gear , or magic that can give her character a leg up. The goal is to make a rogue that specializes in tripping better than a fighter who does not.

Oh, and she uses a halberd. That's important.

Thanks!

 

[Theroc]

Well, rogues typically don't have proficiency with a halberd, so Martial Weapon Proficiency: Halberd, would likely be necessary...

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Use the martial rogue variant for more feats. I know you said no odd races, but being big REALLY helps for tripping. I personally like Goliath with Barbarian multiclass (using Wolf Totem to get trip for free). If you have FR books, there's a regional feat to count as being larger than you are (Jotenbrund?). At the very leas,t enlarge person frequently.

Multiclassing really does help a lot. I mentioned Barbarian, which also gives rage (and as a Goliath large size while raging), but Swordsage for the Setting Sun discipline (both in Tome of Battle) works nicely, too.

For feats, aside from Improved Trip, go for Curling Wave Strike from Stormwrack. It lets you use your free attack after a trip to instead trip a second person within reach. Consider improved disarm. If someone's prone, you effectively have a +8 on the opposed roll +4 to attack prone in melee; -4 to melee attacks for prone targets). Defensive Throw from C. Warrior is really cool if you pick up Combat Reflexes. If a foe misses you, it provokes an AoO from you that you can use to trip them.

More arguably, Whirlwhind Attack (or the similar maneuvers Mithral Tornado and Adamantine Hurricane from Tome of Battle) would allow you to trip every enemy around you in one turn, since you can replace regular attacks with trips.

Back to Swordsage, aside from all the tasty throwing maneuvers based around trip that Setting Sun offers, the level 1 stance (basically a continuous benefit) gives you a +4 bonus to trip and do certain other combat maneuvers when the enemy is on difficult terrain. even if you don't want to multiclass out of Rogue, consider picking up Mighty Throw and that stance (Step of the Wind?) with feats.

Find ways to minimize the Rogue's risk of getting tripped in response. For 600 gp (or 900 gp as a tacked on benefit to existing boots; or 1200 for a non-body slot), Magic Item Compendium has the Boots of Agile Leaping. One benefit is using dex on jump checks instead of str if it's better. The other is, with 5 ranks in balance, you can stand from prone as a swift action without provoking an AoO. There are also two skill tricks in C. Scoundrel (each usable once/encounter) to stand from prone as an immediate action or a swift action, respectively. Both also protect against the AoO. Finally, in C. Adventurer, they mention that you can use a DC 35 tumble check to stand from prone as a free action without provoking an AoO. Alternatively, just use the Prone Fighting feat (C. Warrior) and stay prone. But that feat requires Lightning Reflexes and thus is seldom worth getting.

More MIC items:
Brute Gauntlets: Very cheap to buy, gives a few charges per day to get a small benefit on str-checks made that round.
Belt of Athleticism: Also very inexpensive, as a swift action, you can take 10 on balance, tumble, and several other acrobatic/athletic skills for the round, usable at will. Once per day, you can instead activate it to take 20 on one check with one of those skills.
Tripping (I think that's the name?) weapon enhancement: +2 market price weapon mod, to get +2 on trip checks. IMO, not worth it ever, but if the rogue really wants to optimize tripping...

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

For a COMPLETELY different way to do tripping, check out the Master Thrower prestige class. It takes a litle while to get there, but it gives you a very usnique means of tripping people. Granted, it's meant more for people with daggers and such, but if you take the right feats and magic weapon properties (Throw Anything feat, returning property) it could work with a halberd...maybe. The ideal would be adding 1-4 levels of the Bloostorm Blade presitige class from Tome of Battle as well, but then the Rogue's really getting diluted in levels.

EDIT: Well, you only really need the first level in Master Thrower to pick up Trip Shot, so I guess you could do Rogue x / BB 4 / MT 1. But you'd probably still want to multiclass with Fighter a bit to help qualify earlier with al the BAB and feats you'll need. Or use the martial rogue variant. But Master thrower can work very nicely with Sneak Attack.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

1) Tripping well can get feat intensive, and that is of course the Fighter's strength, and not the Rogue's. With a high Dex, going the Combat Reflexes/Deft Opportunist/Hold the Line/Stand Still route would (potentially) let you fire off a lot of trips if you're operating in a "target rich environment." But that's 4 feats and you haven't even taken Improved Trip to set it up. This means that Martial Rogue or a dip into Fighter is almost a must.

2) Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may well be- I don't have my books handy), but doesn't the Bolo do trip attacks? If so, the right build for a Master Thrower- or any Dex based PC focusing on Trips- would include that exotic weapon.

3) Expanding on the Master Thrower concept...consider a couple of Battle Sorcerer levels. Why? Whirling Blade is a spell (found in the Spell Compendium) that lets you fling a bladed weapon and (as I recall) do any attack you could normally do with it in the area of the spell...and the weapon returns to your hand automatically. And, by jiminy, the Halberd is a bladed weapon. Use the spell, *fling* and the thing comes back, hopefully leaving a trail of prone foes behind it. Since you're tripping at range, there is ZERO chance of being tripped yourself, and by the spell's wording, ZERO chance of being disarmed.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

1) You don't really need most of those feats you listed, they're just nice to have. Improved Trip and maybe Curling Wave Strike is sufficient to be good at tripping. Maybe Combat Reflexes and Defensive Throw. Maneuvers are also nice but not needed. And it really depends on the build, if you're multiclassing out a bunch, you won't have much SA anyway, so you may as well go for martial rogue. If you're mostly staying in rogue, it's probably better to keep the SA.
2) Trip Shot lets you attempt to trip after any thrown weapon attack, making the bolo unnecessary. also, the OP wanted to use a halberd.
3) Good point, that's a nice spell. The only thing though is, Caster Level doesn't matter for the spell, you may as well get a wand or scroll of it, which as a Rogue, the PC could use magic device on it anyway. No need to multiclass to get it as a spell. Also, you need to use int or cha on the attack and damage roll instead of dex/str, so it's going to have a lower amount in those areas. But a 60 ft line of tripping is sweet.

While on spells, if you like the Master Thrower build, consider getting scrolls or a wand of mass snake's swiftness. It's a standard action level 3 druid spell. All allies in a 20 ft radius (which can include you) can immediately make a single melee or ranged attack. Helps you and the rest of the party.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Re: Bolos: my point was more along the lines of the Bolo obviating the need for levels in the MT PrCl, possibly getting the PC a more streamlined and overall more effective tripping build. Trip at range with the Bolo, trip in close with the Halberd.

Re: Whirling Blade: I hadn't considered UMD- good point.

But as for Int? If a rogue doesn't have Int as one of his 2 top stats, that's pretty unusual. And that could make UMD the better option.

And yes, I realize I suggested Battle Sorc. That was to get the spellcasting (in armor), Martial Weap prof, and an OK BAB. I don't know, however, what classes besides Wiz or Sorc have Whirling Blade on their list. If its available to a Beguiler or Duskblade, that may make even more sense for a possible dip.

 

[Runestar]

You might also want to work with your DM to ensure that he at least supplies you with a decent number of foes that can actually be tripped (and have a reasonable change of being tipped by you). Tripping tends to favour the opposition, between their generous str scores and size discrepancies.

Another issue is that the tipper always uses his str mod to modify his trip check. How viable is this for a rogue, who will want high dex and a decent int score as well? Str can no longer afford to be a dump stat for you.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

The str issue is why any typical trip build for her rogue needs as much size and str as the next melee guy.

My Master Thrower build's Trip Shot uses dex for tripping, and a Swordsage mix with Setting Sun throws could likewise use dex on her trip checks.

Barring one of those, I'd say strength is at least as important as dex for such a character, probably more important. Which is fine. Chain shirt is still light armor, and caps at dex +4 to AC. You can always pick up gloves of dexterity to meet that. Assuming the OP wants a non odd race, I'd recommend Wood Elf from the monster manual. Losing con and int both hurts, but str and dex bonuses are great. The OP hasn't said why it must be a halberd yet, but (and I'm assuming he's the DM), it seems like a fair trade to me to give the rogue halberd proficiency instead of the regular elf weapon proficiencies. Halberds aren't even good weapons.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Which brings me back to Whirling Blade. Again, I don't have the spell in front of me, but as I recall, you can opt to use your casting stat to resolve the attacks, etc., instead of your physical stats.

For a Rogue with UMD (or a Int-based spellcaster dip), that means he could keep a typical Dex/Int build and do just fine.