Rogue survival in the land of the unliving. Looking for advice...
- Thread starter Kalendraf
- Start date
Bardsandsages
First Post
Considering all the skill points and other abilities of a rogue, if you consider your character that handicapped just because you can't backstab undead, you aren't optimizing correctly. I run a lot of games that include plenty of undead and constructs, and it's never handicapped my rogue players in any way. In reality, I get more complaints from fighters.
"COOL! Critical threat....oooo...wait....undead are immune to criticals....CRAP!" Normally followed by the upteenth attempt to convince me that undead should be suseptible to critical hits.
"COOL! Critical threat....oooo...wait....undead are immune to criticals....CRAP!" Normally followed by the upteenth attempt to convince me that undead should be suseptible to critical hits.
darthkilmor
First Post
Kalendraf said:
Spell Compendium
Not sure where the spell originated
Spark of Life (Necro, Cleric 3/ Druid 4)
casting: 1 standard action
range: touch
target: 1 undead touched
duration: 1 round/level
will negates, SR yes.
Maybe if you had it in something that was like x times per day it would help?
Bardsandsages said:
Well, the PC's stats were laid out in the first post. Please, go ahead and inspect them, then explain where the player has gone wrong in his optimization efforts. Feel free to offer advice on how he should optimize correctly.
This is after all the point of this thread, and a lot more helpful than, "You did it wrong, but I'm not going to tell you where."
Old Drew Id
First Post
Easy six levels of cleric. You will suck on the XP penalty for a while, but it's not that bad once you get used to it. I don't know what pantheon you use in your game world, but the domains I would go for when fighting undead are Life, Earth, Glory, and ; with Life or Repose as the top choice because it would give you Hide From Undead in your level 1 slot, which gives you the opportunity to use Grave Strike.
Put Grave Strike into all of your other slots. Your low Wisdom won't matter because you won't be casting any spells with saving throws, and you aren't getting so many levels of cleric that you will be missing out on bonus spells. By your 3rd level of cleric, pick up a Wisdom +2 item to bump you to 13 to get the bonus spells you missed, plus aid your Will save. Assuming you can pick up that Wis +2 item, you stick around in cleric until 6th level just before you would get 4th level spells to maximize your use of the cleric class and to eliminate the XP penalty.
The key to this build is that you minimize the effects of your low Wisdom. Do not cast enemy-target spells like attack spells, etc. Instead just focus on buffing yourself, particularly with swift spells and spells like Grave Strike. Then wade into combat. You won't turn undead and you won't be throwing flame strikes, but you will be a rogue with Bull's Strength, Grave Strike, Bless, etc. so that your attacks are decently scary.
Plus, no sense in wasting those unused turning attempts, so pick up one or more of the feats that let you use turning attempts to do other things like directly damage undead, boost spell effects, etc. Sacred Vengeance would probably be your top choice but Sacred Vitality is also good. If you can get a Cha+2 item then Divine Vigor is great. Otherwise Sacred Boost is very nice. (Download the free feat list PDF file from crystalkeep.com to see the full list, and these are all official WotC feats so your DM should approve.)
After that, you're level 12, so look at prestige classes. If your DM will allow you to locate a Worm of Kyuss (from the Age of Worms campaign but you should be able to locate the equivalent in your campaign world from the sound of all the undead there) you can go three levels deep into the WormHunter prestige class, which allows you to sneak attack and crit undead all the time. You can finish up that class, or head on to Hunter of the Dead or Sworn Slayer at that point, and always grab another level of rogue if it suits you.
Put Grave Strike into all of your other slots. Your low Wisdom won't matter because you won't be casting any spells with saving throws, and you aren't getting so many levels of cleric that you will be missing out on bonus spells. By your 3rd level of cleric, pick up a Wisdom +2 item to bump you to 13 to get the bonus spells you missed, plus aid your Will save. Assuming you can pick up that Wis +2 item, you stick around in cleric until 6th level just before you would get 4th level spells to maximize your use of the cleric class and to eliminate the XP penalty.
The key to this build is that you minimize the effects of your low Wisdom. Do not cast enemy-target spells like attack spells, etc. Instead just focus on buffing yourself, particularly with swift spells and spells like Grave Strike. Then wade into combat. You won't turn undead and you won't be throwing flame strikes, but you will be a rogue with Bull's Strength, Grave Strike, Bless, etc. so that your attacks are decently scary.
Plus, no sense in wasting those unused turning attempts, so pick up one or more of the feats that let you use turning attempts to do other things like directly damage undead, boost spell effects, etc. Sacred Vengeance would probably be your top choice but Sacred Vitality is also good. If you can get a Cha+2 item then Divine Vigor is great. Otherwise Sacred Boost is very nice. (Download the free feat list PDF file from crystalkeep.com to see the full list, and these are all official WotC feats so your DM should approve.)
After that, you're level 12, so look at prestige classes. If your DM will allow you to locate a Worm of Kyuss (from the Age of Worms campaign but you should be able to locate the equivalent in your campaign world from the sound of all the undead there) you can go three levels deep into the WormHunter prestige class, which allows you to sneak attack and crit undead all the time. You can finish up that class, or head on to Hunter of the Dead or Sworn Slayer at that point, and always grab another level of rogue if it suits you.
Zaruthustran
The tingling means it’s working!
You're a weak gnome rogue thrust into the front lines of an undead-heavy campaign.
Well, yeah, you're going to be ineffectual.
No two ways about it.
Once you accept that, there are a few things you can try.
Use the previously-mentioned PHB II ability.
Try to disarm intelligent undead.
Be a high-AC road block.
Take out any living necromancers/wizards/blackguards.
Get an undead-bane weapon.
For levels and feats: I'd stick with Rogue until level 10. For the special ability, take Slippery Mind. That'll really help with Will saves. Or pick up Opportunist for extra opportunities to do damage--it works great with a (silver undead bane holy) spiked chain.
For more will-save goodness: the usual buffs. A simple Protection from Evil is a must for undead, since it defeats the dreaded Vampire's gaze and other mind-control. If your party casters are lame then just get a wand of it and cast it yourself. Also pick up wands of magic missile and mage armor for use against incorporeals.
Well, yeah, you're going to be ineffectual.
No two ways about it. Once you accept that, there are a few things you can try.
Use the previously-mentioned PHB II ability.
Try to disarm intelligent undead.
Be a high-AC road block.
Take out any living necromancers/wizards/blackguards.
Get an undead-bane weapon.
For levels and feats: I'd stick with Rogue until level 10. For the special ability, take Slippery Mind. That'll really help with Will saves. Or pick up Opportunist for extra opportunities to do damage--it works great with a (silver undead bane holy) spiked chain.
For more will-save goodness: the usual buffs. A simple Protection from Evil is a must for undead, since it defeats the dreaded Vampire's gaze and other mind-control. If your party casters are lame then just get a wand of it and cast it yourself. Also pick up wands of magic missile and mage armor for use against incorporeals.
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