Rogue/Swordsage help.

[Angerland]

I need a little help coming up with feats and manuvers for a Rogue /Swordsage. Also what is a good cut off for Rogue when mixed with Swordsage? Would be starting at 1st level.

The character will be an elf in our Ebberon campaign, rolling up stats tonight. I know I want the manuevers to focus on shadow hand, tiger claw and diamond mind, but other thatn that I am at a loss. Multiclassing is ok but I want to keep any exp penalties to a minimum. The character is the stealthy fighter of the group, so Weapon Finesse asap is in order also I really want him to be a TWF pro.

Books available are : Core, PHBII, Ebberron, Complete X, and Races of X.

Thank in advance for any help.

 

[Someone]

As stealthy fighter, you can go exclusively with Swordsage as you will have the skills and skill points to sneak. If you want to be a trap disbler and such, I'd add 1 rogue level at level 2 (for Trapfinding) and stop there, buying the needed skill ranks cross-class.

TWF can be very feat intensive, but if you go there I wouldn't miss the Shadow blade feat. It forces you to use shadow hand stances, but those are very good anyway; Island of blades will help you (and actually everyone) to land blows and deal sneak attacks, and you can't miss Assasin stance.

A 2nd level swordsage gets a second stance that you can use to get Scent; it's very useful outside combat, and when in it you can change stances with just a swift action.

Also, if using two weapon fighting don't forget Burning blade (Ad +1d6+initiator level to all your attacks)

 

[Nifft]

Shadow Hand and Diamond Mind would be my two pick; Tiger Claw is a lot of fun, but you have to like the TWF style a lot.

If you're an Elf... the multi-classing penalties will be awful unless you balance the levels until you take a PrC. (For a PrC, check out Eternal Blade -- nice Elfy flavor, but favors Warblade more than Swordsage, given the focus on Intelligence. The BAB requirement is going to be VERY hard for you to meet, but you could do it by level 12 -- SS 4 / Rog 4 / Warblade 4.)

Consider just sticking with Swordsage, unless you promised someone you'd find traps.

Cheers, -- N

 

[zeb.hillard]

The problem you will run into is that neither Rogue or Swordsage is a favored class for Elves. You'll need to keep them within one level of each other, or you'll be running into experience penalties.

I have a personal dislike of taking 1 level of Rogue when Evasion is...just...right...next...door...to it, along with a BAB increase, even more skill points (Which isn't that big of a deal, because Swordsage's are chock full), and an even level to round down so that you have 1 initiator level under your belt to add to your Swordsage levels (Since non-Initiator classes are halved and then rounded down). Granted, Rogue 1/SS19 has a 19IL anyway, the same as a SS18/Rog2, but it's something.

 

[Angerland]

we wont have anyone else to do any kind of some times rogue stuff was my main reason for taking rogue levels. That and an extra d6 of sneak attack damage now and again.

the feats I had already decided on were: Shadowblade, weapon finesse, twf (that covers 1-6).

 

[jasin]

Well, what kind of rogue stuff do you need, exactly? Pure swordsage can handle sneaking and surprise attacks just fine. If you have an artificer (and what kind of Eberron game doesn't) he could do traps, probably better than a rogue, thanks to likely higher Int. That covers most of what the rogue's expected to do, without a need for actual Rog levels.

 

[Angerland]

your \0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0 all making perfect sense. we have no artificer, strange I know. I was thinking trapfinding and evasion a lot sooner would be nice. How about some help with manuvers and combos?
for level 1 I was thinking: shadowblade technique, sudden leap, clinging shadow strike, burning blade, saphire nightmare blade, ?
Stance= island of blades


quick rules question. PrC's count as a "class" when multiclassing yes? as far as xp penalties I mean.

 

[James McMurray]

No, PrCs do not cause XP penalties.

The rogue in our group is seriously considering taking an XP penalty for a level of Swordsage at 9th level so he can grab the +2d6 sneak attack feat and a bunch of maneuvers that make people flatfooted or otherwise help him sneak attack more often. We trained for the team benefit where if two of us flank all of us do, so he should shortly start punching out lots of SA damage.

 

[blargney the second]

I'd take one rogue level then 3 swordsage, and repeat that until 20th level.
-blarg

 

[jasin]

we have no artificer, strange I know.

That's a shame, in more ways that just the fact that you're lacking a trapfinder.

Do Complete Adventurer ninjas get trapfinding? It's not really that much different, but the ninja seems a better fit for the medatative swordsage. And you'd also get your swordsage Wis doing a little bit extra, providing you with extra uses of ki power.

How about some help with manuvers and combos?
for level 1 I was thinking: shadowblade technique, sudden leap, clinging shadow strike, burning blade, saphire nightmare blade, ?
Stance= island of blades

If that's a complete list, you can't have sudden leap; it requires another Tiger Claw maneuver first.

I also wouldn't miss moment of perfect mind, or the other concentration-as-saves manevuer. As a trapspringer, you won't mind having to roll d20+25 rather than d20+10 for your Fort when you trigger that harm glyph.

quick rules question. PrC's count as a "class" when multiclassing yes? as far as xp penalties I mean.

This has been the subject of debate, but AFAIK the intent is that PrCs are not counted. But what PrC are you considering, for a swordsage/rogue?