Rogue/Swordsage help.

[Someone]

your \0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0 all making perfect sense. we have no artificer, strange I know. I was thinking trapfinding and evasion a lot sooner would be nice. How about some help with manuvers and combos?
for level 1 I was thinking: shadowblade technique, sudden leap, clinging shadow strike, burning blade, saphire nightmare blade, ?
Stance= island of blades
.

You can't take sudden leap unless you take another Tiger claw maneuver. I'd recommend Wolf fang strike, since you're going to use two weapon fighting and Island of blades will probably help you with your attack bonus. But anyway I'd also take Wind stride over Sudden leap. You're also IMO a bit short on defense; I'd pick Stone bones or if you're Small, Counter charge.

 

[Angerland]

I am away from my books, I intended to have wolf fang strike in there as well to allow sudden leap. I was not necessarrily planning any PrC for a Rogue/Swordsage, but a Swordsage/Warblade might lead in to Bloodclaw master which wouldn't be too awful I don't think.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Here is my build, although he is a Human (I needed it for the bonus feat and to ease the multiclassing penalities).

Human
Swordsage 13/Rogue 1/Fighter1/Warlock 2/Bloodclaw Master 3
Progression: Swordsage 1/Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Warlock 2/SS +4/BCM 3/SS +8

Attributes are unassigned atm, but this build favors high Dex and Wis.

BAB +13/+8/+3

Fort +9
Ref +13
Will +12

Feats
(H) Adaptive Style
(1) Shadow Blade
(3) Two-Weapon Fighting, (Weapon Finesse)
(6) Extra Readied Maneuver
(9) Free
(12) Gloom Razor
(15) ITWF (+6 BAB)
(18) GTWF (+11 BAB)

Skills: Balance, Concentration, Hide, Jump, Martial Lore, Move Silently, Tumble

Weapon of Choice: Daggers (dual wielded)

Invocations
Leaps & Bounds
Spiderwalk

Class Abilities
Sneak Attack +1d6 (+4d6 w/ Assassin’s Stance)
Trap Finding
Eldritch Blast +1d6
Detect Magic
Quick to Act +3
Discipline Focus (Weapon Focus) [Shadow Hand]
AC Bonus (Wis)
Discipline Focus (Insightful Strike) [Shadow Hand]
Sense Magic
Discipline Focus (Defensive Stance) [???]
Evasion
Discipline Focus (Insightful Strike) [???]

Prestige Class Abilities
Shifting 2/day
Claws of the Beast
Superior TWF
Tiger Claw synergy (stance)
Pouncing Strike
Low-light vision

Swordsage Initiator Level 18 (up to 9th level maneuvers)
Maneuvers/Stances
20 known /11 readied /4 stances

[sblock]
Maneuvers (® = Readied)
Sapphire Nightmare Blade (Strike) [DM 1]
Mighty Throw (Strike) [SS 1]
Sudden Leap (Boost) [TC 1]
® Cloak of Deception (Boost) [SH 2]
® Mind over Body (Counter) [DM 3]
Death Mark (Strike) [DW 3] (swap Distracting Embers)
Comet Throw (Strike) [SS 4]
Obscuring Shadow Veil (Strike) [SH 4] (swap Shadow Blade Technique)
Dancing Mongoose (Boost) [TC 5]
Pouncing Charge (Strike) [TC 5]
® Ballista Throw (Strike) [SS 6]
® Hydra Slaying Strike (Strike) [SS 7]
® Shadow Blink [SH 7] (swap out Shadow Jaunt)
® Bloodletting Strike (Strike) [SH 5]
® Enervating Shadow Strike (Strike) [SH 8]
® Raging Mongoose (Boost) [TC 8] (swap Wolf Fang Strike)
One with Shadow (Counter) [SH 8]
® Five-Shadow Creeping Ice Enervation Strike (Strike) [SH 9]
® Feral Death Blow (Strike) [TC 9] (swap Claw at the Moon)
® Tornado Strike (Strike) [SS 9]

Stances
Island of Blades
Child of Shadow
Assassin’s Stance
Step of the Dancing Moth
[/sblock]

Notes
[sblock]
• High Degree of DEX & Wis Synergy: You gain dex to attack at level 3 and dex to damage at level 1st (when in a SH stance and using SH weapons, such as dagger). You gain Wis to AC at level 6 and Wis to damage on two schools of strikes.
• Full Str damage to each weapon when using TWF w/ daggers (or Tiger Claw weapons) at level 10.
• No -2 penalty from TWF when using daggers or TC weapons from level 11 on.
• High AC: Due to the fact that dex and wisdom both contribute to your AC, and you may wear light armor (read mithril breast plate), you have pretty good AC. Let's not forget about Evasion at level 16 (kinda late, but oh well).
• Gloom Razor: Mixed with many shadow hand maneuvers/boosts this feat is incredible as it is capable of rendering opponents flat-footed without an opposing check. Your rogue will appreciate this. It also synergizes quite well with both the Child of Shadow and Island of Blades stances, granting a flat-footed opponent almost every round or near constant concealment.
• Good initiative: Not astoundingly high, but the good dex synergy + quick to act gives a total of 3+dex to initiative.
• Access to 9th level maneuvers by 20th level. Dual progression provides a large store of maneuvers at the beginning of combat.
• Good saves: F/R/W of 9/13/12 at 20th level.
[/sblock]

Level-by-Level progression:

[sblock]
Level 1
Swordsage 1
BAB: +0
(H) Feat: Adaptive Style
(1) Feat: Extra Readied Maneuver
Initiator Level: 1 (up to 1st level maneuvers/stances)
Maneuvers Known (6)/Maneuvers Readied (5)/Stances Known (1)
Maneuvers: Distracting Ember (Boost) [DW 1], Sapphire Nightmare Blade (Strike) [DM 1], Shadow Blade Technique (Strike) [SH 1], Mighty Throw (Strike) [SS 1], Sudden Leap (Boost) [TC 1], Wolf Fang Strike (Strike) [TC1]
Stances: Island of Blades [SH 1]
Skills (28 +Int x4): Concentration 4, Hide 4, Jump 4, Listen 4, Martial Lore 4, Move Silently 4, Tumble 4

Level 2
Rogue 1
BAB: +0
Skills (9 +Int): Hide 5, Jump 5, Listen 5, Move Silently 5, Spot 4, Tumble 5

Level 3
Fighter 1
BAB: +1
(3) Feat: Two-Weapon Fighting
(F1) Feat: Weapon Finesse
Skills (2 +Int): Jump 6

Level 4
Warlock 1
BAB: +1
Invocation: Spiderwalk
Skills (3 +Int): Concentration 7, Jump 7

Level 5
Warlock 2
BAB: +2
Invocation: Leaps and Bounds
Skills (3 +Int): Concentration 8, Jump 8, (1 skill point left over)

Level 6
Swordsage 2
BAB: +3
(6) Feat: Shadow Blade
Initiator Level: 4 (up to 2nd level maneuvers/stances)
Maneuvers Known (7)/Maneuvers Readied (5)/Stances Known (2)
Maneuvers: Cloak of Deception (Boost) [SH 2]
Stances: Child of Shadow
Skills (7 +Int): Concentration 9, Hide 7, Jump 9, Listen 7, Martial Lore 5, Move Silently 7, Tumble 7

Level 7
Swordsage 3
BAB: +4
Initiator Level: 5 (up to 3rd level maneuvers/stances)
Maneuvers Known (8)/Maneuvers Readied (6)/Stances Known (2)
Maneuvers: Shadow Jaunt [SH 2]

Level 8
Swordsage 4
BAB: +5
Initiator Level: 6 (up to 3rd level maneuvers/stances)
Maneuvers Known (9)/Maneuvers Readied (6)/Stances Known (2)
Maneuvers: Mind over Body (Counter) [DM 3], Death Mark (Strike) [DW 3] (swap Distracting Embers)

Level 9
Swordsage 5
BAB: +5
Initiator Level: 7 (up to 4th level maneuvers/stances)
Maneuvers Known (10)/Maneuvers Readied (7)/Stances Known (3)
Maneuvers: Comet Throw (Strike) [SS 4]
Stance: Assassin’s Stance

Level 10
Swordsage 6
BAB: +6/+1
Initiator Level: 8 (up to 4th level maneuvers/stances)
Maneuvers Known (11)/Maneuvers Readied (7)/Stances Known (3)
Maneuvers: Claw at the Moon (Strike) [TC 2], Obscuring Shadow Veil (Strike) [SH 4] (swap Shadow Blade Technique)

Level 11
Bloodclaw Master 1
BAB: +6/+1
Initiator Level: 9 (up to 5th level maneuvers/stances)
Maneuvers Known (12)/Maneuvers Readied (7)/Stances Known (3)
Maneuvers: Dancing Mongoose (Boost) [TC 5]

Level 12
Bloodclaw Master 2
BAB: +7/+2
Initiator Level: 10 (up to 5th level maneuvers/stances)
Maneuvers Known (12)/Maneuvers Readied (7)/Stances Known (3)

Level 13
Bloodclaw Master 3
BAB: +8/+3
Initiator Level: 11 (up to 6th level maneuvers/stances)
Maneuvers Known (13)/Maneuvers Readied (8)/Stances Known (3)
Maneuvers: Pouncing Charge (Strike) [TC 5]

Level 14
Swordsage 7
BAB: +9/+4
Initiator Level: 12 (up to 6th level maneuvers/stances)
Maneuvers Known (14)/Maneuvers Readied (8)/Stances Known (3)
Maneuvers: Ballista Throw (Strike) [SS 6]

Level 15
Swordsage 8
BAB: +10/+5
Initiator Level: 13 (up to 7th level maneuvers/stances)
Maneuvers Known (15)/Maneuvers Readied (9)/Stances Known (3)
Maneuvers: Hydra Slaying Strike (Strike) [SS 7], Shadow Blink [SH 7] (swap out Shadow Jaunt)

Level 16
Swordsage 9
BAB: +10/+5
Initiator Level: 14 (up to 7th level maneuvers/stances)
Maneuvers Known (16)/Maneuvers Readied (9)/Stances Known (4)
Maneuvers: Bloodletting Strike (Strike) [SH 5]
Stance: Step of the Dancing Moth

Level 17
Swordsage 10
BAB: +11/+6/+1
Initiator Level: 15 (up to 8th level maneuvers/stances)
Maneuvers Known (17)/Maneuvers Readied (10)/Stances Known (4)
Maneuvers: Enervating Shadow Strike (Strike) [SH 8], Raging Mongoose (Boost) [TC 8] (swap Wolf Fang Strike)

Level 18
Swordsage 11
BAB: +12/+7/+2
Initiator Level: 16 (up to 8th level maneuvers/stances)
Maneuvers Known (18)/Maneuvers Readied (10)/Stances Known (4)
Maneuvers: One with Shadow (Counter) [SH 8]

Level 19
Swordsage 12
BAB: +13/+8/+3
Initiator Level: 17 (up to 9th level maneuvers/stances)
Maneuvers Known (19)/Maneuvers Readied (10)/Stances Known (4)
Maneuvers: Five-Shadow Creeping Ice Enervation Strike (Strike) [SH 9], Feral Death Blow (Strike) [TC 9] (swap Claw at the Moon)

Level 20
Swordsage 13
BAB: +13/+8/+3
Initiator Level: 18 (up to 9th level maneuvers/stances)
Maneuvers Known (20)/Maneuvers Readied (11)/Stances Known (4)
Maneuvers: Tornado Throw (Strike) [SS 9]
[/sblock]

At the very least, hopefully this gives you some more ideas...

 

[Darklone]

Awful BAB...

 

[Angerland]

ok, we rolled up last night and here is what I got:

(Lesser) Drow [mainly story reasons....it an elf with darkvision 60', +2 save vs spell/spell like abilities, fairie fire spell like ability, light blindness, basically]
Swordsage1
Manuver: Sapphire nightmare blade, wolf fang strike, sudden leap, shadow blade technique, burning blade, clinging shadow strike (not sold on this one)
Stance: Island of Blades
Rolls for abilities= 17,15,13,13,12,11 (any tips on placement?)
Str 13
Dex 19(17+2)
Con 11(13-2)
Int 12
Wis 15
Cha 11

Feats (Drow Skirmisher, DM bonus), Shadow Blade, (WF Shadow blade)
Hp 8, AC 16 (FF 14, Touch 14) Init+5 (+4 dex, +1 quick to act)
Weapons: Drow Long Kinves (2)To hit =+1, dmg 1d6+1 (+4 in shadow hand stance) 19-12/x2

Drow Scorpion chain, to hit = +1, dmg 1d6+1 (+4 in shadow hand stance) 19-20/x2

Chitin Armor (light) Armor bonus +2, max dex +7, Armor check pen -1


any glaring mistakes? we havent done anything but roll up and get background flavor so far, so tweaking is still available.

 

[Elethiomel]

Feats (Drow Skirmisher, DM bonus), Shadow Blade, (WF Shadow blade)
Weapons: Drow Long Kinves (2)To hit =+1, dmg 1d6+1 (+4 in shadow hand stance) 19-12/x2
Drow Scorpion chain, to hit = +1, dmg 1d6+1 (+4 in shadow hand stance) 19-20/x2

Well, Drow Long Knives and Drow Scorpion Chain are not on the list of Shadow Hand preferred weapons, and hence wouldn't get the benefit of Shadow Blade, unless your DM has specified otherwise.

 

[Nifft]

As a Rogue, you can still get some Shadow Hand goodies.

At 9th level, take Martial Lore (Shadow Jaunt). You can now blink out 50 ft. once per encounter... or once per minute. At 10th level, for your Rogue Special Ability, take Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance). You now get +2d6 Sneak Attack while ... awake.

At 12th level, take Shadow Blade, and at 15th level take Gloomrazor. (For your 13th level Rogue Special Ability, I like Improved Evasion or Crippling Strike.)

Now you've got some of the Martial advantages, but no multiclassing ickyness.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Angerland]

under the description of Drow Skirmisher Drow long knives count as daggers or short swords when it comes to feats such as weapon focus, weapon specialization, etc...my DM and I agree that they would then work as "daggers" or "short swords" for the purpose of shadow hand techniques. Same for scorpion chain/spiked chain. anything slightly "wonky" with the rules like that has been cleared with the DM.