Rogues against undead

[mmadsen]

Since there a plenty of examples of Undead with weaknesses -- Vampire's getting staked through the heart, Living Dead getting shot through the head -- I see no problem in allowing a Rogue to Sneak Attack the Undead with the proper Feat. Supernatural Blow, from Masters of the Wild allows a Ranger to use his Favored Enemy ability against the Undead (or Constructs) and score Critical Hits. I don't see why it shouldn't be used by Rogues as well. Perhaps you might require the Foe Hunter Feat first -- and you might make each kind of Undead a different Foe.

 

[Chun-tzu]

In Path of the Sword, there's a feat called Holy Fury that allows Barbarians to inflict critical damage to undead while raging. However, they have to use a Turn Undead attempt to do this, meaning they need Cleric levels as well.

You could modify this idea to create a new Divine feat. By expending one Turn attempt, the Rogue gains the ability to Sneak Attack undead for a duration based on their Cha modifier (like other Divine feats).

 

[Mark]

Rather than change the whole game by instituting such a rule, why not just include some sort of magic item (ALA dagger of sneak attacking undead) early on that accomplishes the same thing? If it doesn't work out, you can always remove it easily (or trade it out in some way) without having to completely redo the balance of the game. I find short strokes are better than broad strokes when they accomplish the same thing.

 

[coyote6]

I'd allow a feat or a magic item (or both -- create a feat, & let there be items that grant that feat) that allows a character to do sneak attack damage to the undead -- but at a reduced rate. The d4 idea is interesting, but my first thought was to just halve the number of dice. So a 7th level rogue would do +2d6 sneak attack damage vs. undead.

Or you could combine the two, so that the 7th level rogue does +2d4 sneak attack damage. That might be too harsh for you, though. OTOH, even +1d4 is more than the +0 they get otherwise.

 

[Sejs]

Personally I don't think rogues should get any special sneak-attacking undead abilities. Much in the same way that sneak attack shouldn't do anything special vs constructs, oozes, elementals or any other creature with no discernable anatomy.

You have a dagger. You stab the zombie, making a hole that's a few inches deep and probably an inch wide.

The zombie is distracted! You stab it under the armpit, aiming for the heart and lungs,........ making a hole that's a few inches deep and probably an inch wide. But in a slightly different location on the body.


You wanna mess up undead with a sword, go get religeon.

 

[Noldor Elf]

Lot's of great suggestions, thanks! I'd probably go with the d4 instead of d6 method.

In the campaign world undeads would be as common as goblins in standard D&D world. The Death is missing so quite many living things return after death. So there is area basicly controlled by undead (some of them more intelligent, some zombie style).

It could be good idea to limit the sneak attack against certain types of undead (those with weaknesses).

 

[mmadsen]

In the campaign world undeads would be as common as goblins in standard D&D world.

In such a world, not only would you want to boost the Rogue's abilities against Undead, but you'd probably want to reduce the Cleric's. I always like the idea of non-warrior priests (i.e. Clerics as Divine Sorcerers).

 

[Crothian]

In such a world, not only would you want to boost the Rogue's abilities against Undead, but you'd probably want to reduce the Cleric's. I always like the idea of non-warrior priests (i.e. Clerics as Divine Sorcerers).

Instead of weakening the clerics, you can give all the undead some increased level of turn resistance.

 

[bret]

Personally, I would do it with a PrC.

The starting rogue just learns to carry a light mace for the skeletons and realizes that the Zombies, Skeletons and such usually aren't the brightest of creatures. Lead them into traps and deal with them that way. Use the surrounding terrain and your Climb, Balance and Tumble skills to deal with the problem.

I would probably look at the Gatecrasher PrC (from Manual of the Planes) for the basis of an undead hunting Rogue. Keep the skills, but give them special abilities that allow them to deal with undead.

Light maces of disruption would be a very popular item with rogues in such a campaign. I would also be pumping the Use Magic Device skill so that I could use a lot of the clerical magic items.

I would not suggest a GM make it so you need a rogue just to deal with traps. This is no fun for the players and tends to make the players have to decide who 'has to play' the rogue. In my experience, there just isn't anything that much fun about searching for and disabling traps.

 

[Terwox]

Personally, I just let them.
Hitting zombies in the head always seemed to work in most movies, hitting skeletons in the joints can't be a bad idea.
But yeah, no sneak attack against incorporeals, unless there's a situation that warrants it.
But yeah, I wouldn't bother, unless you're just looking for a minor cost, then go Knowledge(undead) however many ranks.
eh.