D&D 5E Rogues are Awesome. Is it the Tasha's Effect?

[FrozenNorth]

My current game has a Rogue Swashbuckler. Even without optimization, using Tasha’s or even using his subclass abilities, he is consistently a contender for most damage and always has something to do outside combat.

In my second game, even with 3 other characters encroaching on the rogue’s niche (the ranger as the trapfinder and trapspringer, the warlock with the invisible imp scout, and the bard as the face and the skill monkey), the rogue still earns his keep.

Rogues are a solidly designed class.

 

[FrozenNorth]

I'm happy to report that NPCs do, indeed, understand the concept of object permanence, have memories moderately longer than that of a goldfish, and will in fact learn to watch for the halfling who has to reveal themselves to fire a shot.

I don’t play with Steady Aim (since I don’t think Rogues need the buff), but I do require that a Rogue move at least a couple of squares to benefit from hiding again. It makes the game more dynamic, maintains suspension of disbelief, and doesn’t particularly penalize the rogue as long as they switch between two hidey-holes.

 

[Don Durito]

On my Rogues I always have athletics with expertise. I think that is better than taking acrobatics because you can use it for both offense and defense with shove or grapple.

So do I. And it means you can climb.

 

[FrogReaver]

I am playing a traditional rogue for the first time in 5e. He's a halfling arcane trickster, dex based. We're up to 6th level now.

Out of combat he of course excels. We're playing Mad Mage, and he's excellent with traps, secret doors, and anything requiring investigation or scouting., That Mage Hand which can use thieves tools at range is great, and so is a familiar for scouting. He's pretty decent at negotiations as well, provided he uses deception and sometimes uses a Disguise Self spell.

In combat he usually gets Advantage. He has three options to get Advantage: the new optional rule from Tasha's called Steady Aim (which applies to both ranged and melee attacks), attacking from being hidden as a halfling (can hide behind ally), or the Help action from my familiar.

He can use a crossbow, or a rapier, both of which use my Dex.

Green Flame Blade or Booming Blade is cast as a cantrip. It's the former if two targets are next to each other, or the later if it's a solo target.

And then of course there is sneak attack.

Last night I did 46 points damage in a single attack, though that was some lucky rolling. Damage is Rapier 1d8+4, Sneak Attack 3d6, Green Flame 1d8 + 1d8+2 to 2nd target. So average damage is 30 I think. But...this is every round with just normal at-will resources, and a high chance to hit with advantage.

And with Cunning Action, I don't get stuck on the front line. I can move in, do this massive attack, and safely move back out (if I didn't use Steady Aim). Heck, if I drop my target and won't draw an opportunity attack, I can even move behind an ally and hide as a bonus action (as a halfling), provided I didn't use Steady Aim that round.

And when necessary he can even let lose with an area effect spell, like Sleep. That will eventually be traded out for something else, but it's still great on a pack of goblins.

I know this is not "the most" damage a class can do at this level. I am sure a Paladin for example can do more using some limited resources, and for sure a Wizard can with some limited resources. But, it's just that it's so easy for a traditional rogue to do a ton of damage, without using limited resources. I don't have to be "very optimized" to do this. Dex is obvious. A rapier or ranged weapon is obvious. Steady aim is obvious. A familiar is pretty common I think for an arcane trickster, and I suspect now with Tasha's that green flame blade or booming blade (or both) is also pretty obvious. All of this combination is pretty "normal" for a Tasha's-built rogue. It doesn't require a lot of deep game knowledge or tinkering to find this "good" combination.

And with my combat options being pretty easy to figure out, I find I have a lot more time to focus on role playing this little guy. Which has been a blast!

What are other people's impressions of playing a rogue? Do you also find it plays out roughly as I've said, or is what I'm experiencing more geared towards Tasha's Cauldron's impact on the rogue with Steady Aim and the two combat cantrips being reprinted there?

I’ve played ranged assassain rogues and found advantage to be reliable as well. Great damage, especially at levels outside the typical 5 or 11 damage bumps most characters get.

 

[Zardnaar]

I am playing a traditional rogue for the first time in 5e. He's a halfling arcane trickster, dex based. We're up to 6th level now.

Out of combat he of course excels. We're playing Mad Mage, and he's excellent with traps, secret doors, and anything requiring investigation or scouting., That Mage Hand which can use thieves tools at range is great, and so is a familiar for scouting. He's pretty decent at negotiations as well, provided he uses deception and sometimes uses a Disguise Self spell.

In combat he usually gets Advantage. He has three options to get Advantage: the new optional rule from Tasha's called Steady Aim (which applies to both ranged and melee attacks), attacking from being hidden as a halfling (can hide behind ally), or the Help action from my familiar.

He can use a crossbow, or a rapier, both of which use my Dex.

Green Flame Blade or Booming Blade is cast as a cantrip. It's the former if two targets are next to each other, or the later if it's a solo target.

And then of course there is sneak attack.

Last night I did 46 points damage in a single attack, though that was some lucky rolling. Damage is Rapier 1d8+4, Sneak Attack 3d6, Green Flame 1d8 + 1d8+2 to 2nd target. So average damage is 30 I think. But...this is every round with just normal at-will resources, and a high chance to hit with advantage.

And with Cunning Action, I don't get stuck on the front line. I can move in, do this massive attack, and safely move back out (if I didn't use Steady Aim). Heck, if I drop my target and won't draw an opportunity attack, I can even move behind an ally and hide as a bonus action (as a halfling), provided I didn't use Steady Aim that round.

And when necessary he can even let lose with an area effect spell, like Sleep. That will eventually be traded out for something else, but it's still great on a pack of goblins.

I know this is not "the most" damage a class can do at this level. I am sure a Paladin for example can do more using some limited resources, and for sure a Wizard can with some limited resources. But, it's just that it's so easy for a traditional rogue to do a ton of damage, without using limited resources. I don't have to be "very optimized" to do this. Dex is obvious. A rapier or ranged weapon is obvious. Steady aim is obvious. A familiar is pretty common I think for an arcane trickster, and I suspect now with Tasha's that green flame blade or booming blade (or both) is also pretty obvious. All of this combination is pretty "normal" for a Tasha's-built rogue. It doesn't require a lot of deep game knowledge or tinkering to find this "good" combination.

And with my combat options being pretty easy to figure out, I find I have a lot more time to focus on role playing this little guy. Which has been a blast!

What are other people's impressions of playing a rogue? Do you also find it plays out roughly as I've said, or is what I'm experiencing more geared towards Tasha's Cauldron's impact on the rogue with Steady Aim and the two combat cantrips being reprinted there?

Steady aim was added imho as rogues sucked using ranged weapons vs say dual wielding.

And yeah that buffs the rogue perhaps not as much as the Tasha's cleric but it makes them a lot better at range/versatile since they have trouble sneak attacking at range.

Assuming they don't have an ally that can close the distance and often provides cover for the opponent.

 

[FrogReaver]

Steady aim was added imho as rogues sucked using ranged weapons vs say dual wielding.

which is probably why we liberally let them attempt to hide. Basically evens out the ranged and melee rogues.

 

[Oofta]

I think rogue is the best overall class design in all of 5e. They have potent abilities with real limitations. They require meaningful decisions during character creation and during actual play. They gain abilities at every tier of play that are relevant and potent at that tier, a feat that very few classes manage to accomplish, even some spellcasters. I wish more classes were as evenly and appropriately designed as rogue.

I don't think Tasha's really affects rogue much at all. I like Steady Aim in as much as it codifies that the stupid halfling tricks with Naturally Stealthy and hiding in the same spot over and over and over is pretty explicitly not mechanically broken. It means I, as a DM, have no problem telling my players that hiding in the same spot over and over and jumping out to shoot every single round in exactly the same way doesn't necessarily give the same mechanical benefit over and over and over. They should instead use this other mechanical option that confers basically the same benefit because I'm tired of picking up the shattered remains of my suspension of disbelief at the end of their combat turns. I'm happy to report that NPCs do, indeed, understand the concept of object permanence, have memories moderately longer than that of a goldfish, and will in fact learn to watch for the halfling who has to reveal themselves to fire a shot.

I still believe that green flame blade and booming blade are overrated. They look quite potent on paper, but in actual play they're often relatively mediocre. They are better on rogues than most other classes, but I still would never take both cantrips on the same character.

Yeah, hiding in the same spot over and over again is a Bozo no no for me too. If a 6 month old baby has the concept of object permanence, so do orcs.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah, unless I'm going Life cleric, I take healing word and that's it for healing. Many people still see clerics as healbots and they're so much cooler than that.

Clerics the best class in the game imho. Melee, ranged, healing, utility, skills etc. All in one.

 

[Mistwell]

Yeah, hiding in the same spot over and over again is a Bozo no no for me too. If a 6 month old baby has the concept of object permanence, so do orcs.

We generally played it that you just cannot see them well enough to target them from afar, but you could get into melee range with them. So it's not that they forgot where you were, just that you have total cover.

 

[Oofta]

We generally played it that you just cannot see them well enough to target them from afar, but you could get into melee range with them. So it's not that they forgot where you were, just that you have total cover.

The rogue can always walk around the corner, that doesn't mean the enemy forgets they exist or doesn't keep an eye out for them to pop back out. It's more an issue with the rogue getting advantage every round than getting sneak attack (with is usually not an issue).

In my games if you want to hide and get advantage you're going to have to work a little harder at it and move around. Hiding behind the barbarian doesn't really cut it.