Rogue's At-Will Sly Flourish, is it too good ?

[Nifft]

Edit: But I agree with you, too. Riposte Strike isn't as useful if you're flanking with the Fighter.

Well, it's useful in that it's one more reason for the foe to not attack you. It's not useful in that it gives you more damage -- it's useful in that it keeps you safer than you otherwise would have been.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Diirk]

I am currently playing a rogue in my local game and, in my opinion, the drawback (if there is one) to Sly Flourish is that it is Vs AC, typically one of the better defenses. This means that it tends to hit less often and therefore offsets the slightly higher damage.

I'm not sure that the rogue in my campaign has ever missed, except for the one time he rolled a natural 1.

+5 dex, +3 proficiency (dagger atm), +1 dagger (for being a rogue), +1 magical, +1 level = +11 to hit at lvl 2. He picked up a feat as well, so when he has combat advantage (most of the time) that increases to +14.... before any buffs/debuffs.

Enemies at lvl 2 tend to have around 14-18 AC, so yeah...

 

[Jack99]

I'm not sure I've seen riposte strike actually inflict extra damage on any creature yet in the ~4 sessions I've been grouped with someone who had it. So I deem it quite effective for controlling the monster into not attacking and quite unreliable for actually getting the rogue the extra attack.

What do the monsters do if the rogue is the only one in melee? Shift and charge? That shouldn't always be possible. Or do they just stand around and "skip" their turn, for fear of the riposte attack, that I assume your DM rules they know is coming?

Well, it's useful in that it's one more reason for the foe to not attack you. It's not useful in that it gives you more damage -- it's useful in that it keeps you safer than you otherwise would have been.

Cheers, -- N

Precisely. Between Defensive advantage + marking and Riposte Strike + Shadow Assassin Riposte, has a nice synergy when flanking with a fighter. Basically, the monster is SOL.

 

[Runestar]

Well, it's useful in that it's one more reason for the foe to not attack you. It's not useful in that it gives you more damage -- it's useful in that it keeps you safer than you otherwise would have been.

Cheers, -- N

Let's see if you still share the same sentiments with dance of death.

 

[keterys]

What do the monsters do if the rogue is the only one in melee? Shift and charge? That shouldn't always be possible. Or do they just stand around and "skip" their turn, for fear of the riposte attack, that I assume your DM rules they know is coming?

Never seen a rogue as the only person as an available target. Between shift and charge, shift and swing, and just swing at someone within reach, it either hasn't come up or the rogue has missed. Never seen a turn skipped for fear of riposte.

The way I've seen it ruled is that when you use an ability on a creature, it knows how that ability works against it. Abilities you don't use on it (like shadow riposte) it wouldn't know. So it knows that Cloud of Daggers continues to do damage, or that attacking will make you not riposte. Given that Riposte Strike is also considered a form of monster control by many people, that just makes it proactive. 'I stab the Minotaur for 17 damage, and my rapier is held out ready to riposte if it attacks me.'

 

[robgmsft]

Piercing strike is better for DPS

Attacking vs reflex is no joke. Having run a bunch of numerical simulations, here's the keys to DPS as a rogue, in rough order of importance:

1. 20 DEX, 14 STR, Brute Rogue
2. Sneak Attack as often as possible
3. Piercing Strike
4. Backstabber Feat
5. Rapier Weapon
6. Weapon Focus, Light Blade
7. Two Weapon Fighting
8. Nimble

 

[Pielorinho]

I'm running a game with three strikers (an artful dodger, a brutal scoundrel, and a two-axe ranger). The brutal scoundrel does okay damage. The two-axe ranger loves playing swashbucklingly, and so he does pretty good damage and a lot of terrific stunts. The artful dodger uses sly flourish to do an appalling amount of damage. I've gotten used to it, but at first I thought she was fudging the dice rolls, it was so good.

Daniel

 

[Leatherhead]

I'm running a game with three strikers (an artful dodger, a brutal scoundrel, and a two-axe ranger). The brutal scoundrel does okay damage. The two-axe ranger loves playing swashbucklingly, and so he does pretty good damage and a lot of terrific stunts. The artful dodger uses sly flourish to do an appalling amount of damage. I've gotten used to it, but at first I thought she was fudging the dice rolls, it was so good.

Daniel

I think your brutal scoundrel is forgetting to add their STR mod to sneak attacks.

 

[Nifft]

Let's see if you still share the same sentiments with dance of death.

Dance of Death is practically a Controller ability, in that it's action-denial: targets can't use area attacks that include you.

However, it's also exactly the opposite of Defender abilities ("attacks must include you"), so it seems like a good fit for the Rogue.

Uh, did that answer your exceptionally vague inquiry?

Cheers, -- N

 

[Hypersmurf]

Dance of Death is practically a Controller ability, in that it's action-denial: targets can't use area attacks that include you.

Melee attacks.

Dance of Death has no effect on Area attacks.

-Hyp.