D&D 5E Rogue's Cunning Action to Hide: In Combat??

Lyxen

Great Old One
I believe the reason creatures provide half cover is because they are not static hard object, but fluid cover. And rather than have more complex cover based on size, they opted for simplicity, creature = half-cover regardless of size. Afterall, a tiny or guargantua creature could motion during attack and either let pass the attack more or less easily somehow.

Yes, the main reason is that most creatures do not occupy their whole space and even a tarrasque has pretty thin legs.

However, that tweet it not official, the only official rule about cover is: "A target has half cover if an obstacle blocks at least half of its body. "

And that's it, the following sentence is, clearly, from the wording only a list of examples: "The obstacle might be a low wall, a large piece of furniture, a narrow tree trunk, or a creature, whether that creature is an enemy or a friend."

That being said, for the reasons that you outlined and I completed, I will usually grant half-cover for one creature, but I will apply the rule properly for unusual creatures and situations, such as the gelatinous cube who is large and occupies all of its space in 3 dimensions, or when the size differences are great, for example a rat and a tarrasque. The tarrasque might give only half-cover to a rat, because it's moving and lifting its legs, but the rat will provide no cover at all for a tarrasque. And that is 100% official.
 

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Cover provided by creature has no size implication mentioned. Confirmed also by the Devs;

The question Jeremy answers here seems to be about whether or not creatures can ever grant more than half-cover, not if they always do. So I would not consider this tweet as relevant to the question if a tiny creature can grant cover to a medium one.
 

Plaguescarred

D&D Playtester for WoTC since 2012
Galetinous Cube is an exception to the rules as it takes up its entire space, where normally a creature’s space is the area in feet that it effectively controls in combat, not an expression of its physical dimensions.

I'd rule it provide total cover to target on the opposite side of it for this reason.
 

Plaguescarred

D&D Playtester for WoTC since 2012
The question Jeremy answers here seems to be about whether or not creatures can ever grant more than half-cover, not if they always do. So I would not consider this tweet as relevant to the question if a tiny creature can grant cover to a medium one.
What Jeremy Crawford says cannot be any more clear than that

"A creature provides half cover, regardless of that creature's size."
 

Oofta

Legend
I totally understand your reasoning, and concede that it is 100% logical, but I disagree for one major reason. D&D isn't a simulation of the real world. If I can wrap my head around giant flying reptiles that breathe pure cold, giants so large their legs should shatter, hippies turning into dire squirrels, nerds casting spells, and enraged half-wits shrugging off blows that should maim them instantly, what is wrong with shady pickpockets being unnaturally good at shooting you when you are looking away for a split second?

In your opinion, would it be reasonable to believe that rogues have an uncanny ability to time their strikes for maximum effect that is unique to their class? They seem to be capable of doing so when a target is engaged with another foe or even distracted by a familiar, or at least I haven't seen any arguments to the contrary. Making the leap to include peeking out and attacking from even poor concealment seems perfectly natural to me. It doesn't really matter that you know where the shot is coming from if you don't know when it is coming.

Honestly, in OP's example, I could see granting the sneak attack but not making the attack at advantage. It's not RAW, but I think it's a reasonable compromise at any table having this debate. For most of us, we seem to have a consensus at our tables one way or another. Both work as RAW with different interpretations of how to apply the rules, and its another example of where the designers failed to be clear enough to prevent dozens of pages of arguments that have in several instances passed beyond civil discourse.
First, I agree that D&D is not a particularly realistic simulation. I do think that a rogue should get advantage in combat at least occasionally, or even on multiple turns in a combat with enough chaos and cover. It's not that they would never get to attack after being hidden, it's a question of is the target anticipating an attack from that location for me.

If you have ... say a hundred archer goblins all firing at you at once but they weren't hidden before the attack they would not get advantage, correct? Because the assumption is that while you didn't know exactly who in your party they would be attacking, they were there and they were going to attack at some point. Your PC was anticipating the attack, even if the goblins were all firing from different directions they had no advantage. So I don't think it's a stretch to say that if you know where a rogue was attacking from, you are also anticipating their attack and there would be no advantage.

One simple example: there are guards in the hall that are alert and ready for trouble. Typical, 10 foot wide corridor with a T-intersection that they're staring at. If a rogue comes around the corner they're staring at, I'm sorry but the rogue is not going to get advantage. They see you coming. On the other hand, if the rogue can stealthily get behind the guards to attack they will get advantage; the guards were expecting the attack from the T intersection in front of them, not the open door behind them.

If you want to rule differently that's fine as well. There's just too many situations to have a blanket rule without DM adjudication and some level of "does this at least kind-of-sort-of make sense to me". There are simply too many variables, too many preferences, to come up with hard-and-fast rules. Rules in previous editions often left our group scratching our heads thinking "how the **** would that work" because it was just too mechanical, too much rules over rulings. For us, it felt like a board game.

So I have no problem with how people run it. I just have a problem with people quoting 1 sentence without considering anything else the rules say means "RAW says I'm right" or saying that "this is the correct way to run it because it makes sense to me".
 

Lyxen

Great Old One
Galetinous Cube is an exception to the rules as it takes up its entire space, where normally a creature’s space is the area in feet that it effectively controls in combat, not an expression of its physical dimensions.

I'd rule it provide total cover to target on the opposite side of it for this reason.

Then we are in complete agreement. The funny thing, coming back to the subject of this thread, is that despite that awesome cover provided, it will not allow a rogue to hide behind it. ;)
 

jayoungr

Legend
Supporter
Galetinous Cube is an exception to the rules as it takes up its entire space, where normally a creature’s space is the area in feet that it effectively controls in combat, not an expression of its physical dimensions.

I'd rule it provide total cover to target on the opposite side of it for this reason.
A gelatinous cube is transparent, though, so it doesn't block line of sight.
 

Horwath

Legend
What Jeremy Crawford says cannot be any more clear than that

"A creature provides half cover, regardless of that creature's size."
After JC told that giving Rangers concentration-less Hunter's mark few times per day is overpowered and then continue to print Twilight cleric in Tasha's, I would say that his tweets are not clear on anything.
 


Plaguescarred

D&D Playtester for WoTC since 2012
Then we are in complete agreement. The funny thing, coming back to the subject of this thread, is that despite that awesome cover provided, it will not allow a rogue to hide behind it. ;)
You mean if an halfling could hide using a tiny creature's obscurement? It can't has it is not least one size larger than small. Neither can it hide behind another halfling.
 

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