D&D 5E Roleplaying in D&D 5E: It’s How You Play the Game

[Cadence]

So one player’s interpretation is as valid as another….

It feels like an absurd interpretation doesn't need to be given equal validity in just about any area of disagreement in life. (The tricky part is how absurdity is delineated...).

.It is completely reasonable to read the rules and conclude that 6 Intelligence means that you are 10% worse than average at cognitive tasks. Which is a difference that might not even be observable.

And it feels hard to me to argue that this is absurd. (After a page of quibbling about what is meant by 10%, and an argument that it would only be unobservable in the short run and eventually would show out, and then referring to the thread on how long campaigns run). It would have shown a lot more in earlier editions where they were prereqs for a lot of things.

 

[Maxperson]

The game sets it up for the player to be advised to consider the meaning of these things, but to ultimately decide for themselves how it informs their character's appearance and personality. For a particular portrayal to violate the social contract, as you say here, it must exist as an agreement at the level of table rules. People should be held to their agreements, but the game rules don't actually say what the player must do here other than take what it says into account when deciding. A group that lacks this table rule has no issue with a social contract violation when a player decides to portray the character as Sherlock Holmes while having an Int 5, for example.

The game does not set it up for it to be ignored. It sets it up to be a part of how you play that character. Much like the game talks all over about how ability checks are used on NPCs, it talks all over about what ability scores represent.

Page 89 of the DMG talking about NPCs and the PHB pages I referenced earlier. To discount and ignore those things in favor if doing the opposite is to fail to take them into account. It actively discounts those things.

As has been mentioned already, it's not particularly smart play to try to have an Int 5 character attempt to make deductions or recall lore as Sherlock Holmes might, since it may result in a lot of failure. But that's the player's choice to make.

As it actively discounts the rules and guidelines I mentioned with regard to what stats mean in D&D, such a PC goes against the direction to take what stats mean into account.

 

[iserith]

The game does not set it up for it to be ignored. It sets it up to be a part of how you play that character. Much like the game talks all over about how ability checks are used on NPCs, it talks all over about what ability scores represent.

Page 89 of the DMG talking about NPCs and the PHB pages I referenced earlier. To discount and ignore those things in favor if doing the opposite is to fail to take them into account. It actively discounts those things.

As it actively discounts the rules and guidelines I mentioned with regard to what stats mean in D&D, such a PC goes against the direction to take what stats mean into account.

Taking something into account just means to consider it. Someone can consider it and go in a different direction. It's up to the player and the rules make it so. To think otherwise means that we're now into the realm of action declarations being off the table for certain characters based on their stats which isn't a thing. An Int 5 character can come up with whatever ideas the player says. It's just that when actions that call for an Intelligence check come into play, that character is by some measure worse than characters with higher Intelligence scores on average. But, given the swing on a d20, even that's no guarantee in any given instance of rolling! Depending on the DC, of course.

 

[Lanefan]

So, for you, ability scores override the PHB roleplaying rules on page 185? For you, the player does not fully determine how their PC thinks/talks/acts, it's their character sheet that has the final say on the allowable range of PC thinking/talking/acting. Is that a reasonable assessment of your table's expectations?

1. The player fully determines how the PC thinks/talks/acts.
2. The player is expected to respect what's on the character sheet while doing so and to use the character sheet to inform point 1 above.

These two statements are not contradictory, nor are they incompatible in any way. ETA: And it's hard to believe that either would in any way be controversial.

 

[Maxperson]

Taking something into account just means to consider it.

To reject and do the complete opposite of something that is obviously supposed to be a certain way is to DIScount it.

 

[iserith]

To reject and do the complete opposite of something that is obviously supposed to be a certain way is to DIScount it.

If we can't agree that taking something into account doesn't mean you have to accept it wholesale, merely consider it, then there's not much further we can go here.

One's table rules does not need the validation of the rules to be effective and fun at that table.

 

[Bill Zebub]

We know that a 5 intelligence is significantly lower than a 10. We know that Sherlock Holmes is supposed to be one of the most brilliant people ever which likely puts them at a 20. To say there is no difference between a 5 int and a 20 to me is not a matter of interpretation, it's ignoring simple logic.

Ability scores are either A) a completely abstract concept that does nothing to describe your PC and is only a game mechanic that gives you pluses and minuses or B) it describes your character and also affects game mechanics.

It's been pointed out that Option A is not the intent of the books, nor is it how anyone I've ever actually played the game with views it.

So do you have to use the 5 Int vs Sherlock Holmes example in order to identify a difference?

What’s the “correct” difference, in your view, between roleplaying 8 Int vs 10 Int? (Or any other stat, for that matter?)

 

[Bill Zebub]

To reject and do the complete opposite of something that is obviously supposed to be a certain way is to DIScount it.

Again, though, the “certain way” part is entirely absent from the rules.

Or can you give me an example of where the text describes a certain way to portray an attribute?

 

[Oofta]

So do you have to use the 5 Int vs Sherlock Holmes example in order to identify a difference?

What’s the “correct” difference, in your view, between roleplaying 8 Int vs 10 Int? (Or any other stat, for that matter?)

We aren't talking a difference between an 8 and 10 int. It's the difference between a 5 and 20 which is roughly the span of normal human intelligence. Being more or less intelligent does not make a person any more or less worthy but to say that they are the same is illogical.

 

[iserith]

Again, though, the “certain way” part is entirely absent from the rules.

Or can you give me an example of where the text describes a certain way to portray an attribute?

The objection strikes me as being rooted in the players trying to get away with something and setting up a table rule to make what the game says mandatory rather than something to be taken into consideration. Which is actually an indictment of the game and challenges the DM is presenting rather than the players who are simply acting rationally within that context. If dumping any particular stat doesn't come with a cost, then why expect players not to do that from time to time?