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D&D 5E Roleplaying in D&D 5E: It’s How You Play the Game

Climbing success on an ordinary non-slippery stone-and-mortar wall isn't automatic in 5e, I hope.

If it is, I present it as evidence the game has become (too much) easier.

Yes, the dice generate outcomes; and then someone (the DM, usually) has to generate descriptions to reflect those outcomes.
It is not.

Task DifficultyDC
Very easy5
Easy10
Medium15
Hard20
Very hard25
Nearly impossible30

Personally I'd rank most well made stone and mortar walls a 25, but obviously it can vary widely depending on look, style, is there decorative stonework, etc. Proficiency goes from [EDIT]+3 +2[/EDIT] to a +6, the ability score modifier can (normally) be up to a +5. So even that high level PC with a 20 strength still needs a 14 or better. Good luck.
 

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Climbing success on an ordinary non-slippery stone-and-mortar wall isn't automatic in 5e, I hope.

If it is, I present it as evidence the game has become (too much) easier.

I see it as a sign that the game has become more narrative driven. Instead of listen (roll!) at every door, check for traps (roll!) on every chest, search for secret doors (roll!) in every passage, I have shifted my style…in response to what I’m reading and hearing, in published content and from the community…to one that saves the dice for moments of high tension/stakes.

So if a player says, “instead of going up the steps, i want to climb up the wall and peek over. Does it look climbable?” I might (factoring in the character) just let them have it without dice.

What does it really add to the story to make them roll dice at this point?
 

Climbing success on an ordinary non-slippery stone-and-mortar wall isn't automatic in 5e, I hope.

If it is, I present it as evidence the game has become (too much) easier.
If it is a regular stone and mortar wall with no added difficulties, adventurers are deemed capable enough to climb in 5e - they can climb at half speed (unless they otherwise have a climbing speed) with no roll needed.

As evidenced by the Strength ability check section:

Athletics.
Your Strength (Athletics) check covers difficult situations you encounter while climbing, jumping, or swimming. Examples include the following activities:

  • You attempt to climb a sheer or slippery cliff, avoid hazards while scaling a wall, or cling to a surface while something is trying to knock you off.
Yes, the dice generate outcomes; and then someone (the DM, usually) has to generate descriptions to reflect those outcomes.
Correct, the DM has stakes in mind for success and failure when calling for an ability check in 5e. Some DMs even share those stakes with the player before the roll to reflect that the PC is a capable adventurer at least partly aware of the possible consequences of what they are attempting.
 

Really? Every time the DM describes the environment is an opportunity to telegraph something to the players. We seem to have a disagreement on the definition of telegraphing.

As I said above, telegraphing can be super obvious (e.g. "the wall is wet") or really obscure or something in between.
I think there is just some room there in terms of how people interpret 'telegraph'. I think the classical definition would be a sort of less than overt way of communicating something. Telegraphing indicates that there is some indirection, the receiver of the message must make an inference. Now, wet = slippery could be seen as an inference, though its both A) rather obvious, and B) in terms of the real world not an attempt to communicate (wall doesn't talk). Thus not everyone will see it as the GM telegraphing something, though I don't think you are unreasonable to use the term that way.

Frankly I have to agree with @Oofta on this one, to think that GMs are able to describe every possibly relevant fact, or even have such facts at hand, is a pipe dream. Most of the time a wall is just a pencil line on a dungeon map, and perhaps there's been a note made that this level is damp, or maybe not. Frankly I think 90% of GMs will assume that a climb check incorporates some reasonable uncertainty as to the exact conditions of Wall X. Gygax didn't even have a handle on this, in OD&D and 1e PHB climb walls is described as the ability of a thief to climb SHEER SMOOTH WALLS (impossible climbs). LATER, in the DMG IIRC that was amended somewhat as there were adjustments provided, up and down, for wall condition, so the ability changed (and thus arose the question of how to adjudicate non-thieves climbing).
 

Climbing success on an ordinary non-slippery stone-and-mortar wall isn't automatic in 5e, I hope.

If it is, I present it as evidence the game has become (too much) easier.

Yes, the dice generate outcomes; and then someone (the DM, usually) has to generate descriptions to reflect those outcomes.
I disagree, in Gygax D&D Climb Walls was rated as your chance of climbing a SHEER SURFACE, and the common assumption was anything short of that was climbable by anyone, albeit the GM could impose whatever specific obstacles and thus make you describe how you overcame them (or presumably declare the effort impossible, and thus in the realm of the Climb Walls ability).

My point is, if a 5e GM decided that normal walls didn't require a check, he'd be exactly in the company of EGG, though I expect both will invoke some grey area in there. Not that I am going to disagree with those who just plain ask for climb checks with various DCs, I think 5e designers expect that to be the normal way.
 

If it is a regular stone and mortar wall with no added difficulties, adventurers are deemed capable enough to climb in 5e - they can climb at half speed (unless they otherwise have a climbing speed) with no roll needed.

As evidenced by the Strength ability check section:

Athletics.
Your Strength (Athletics) check covers difficult situations you encounter while climbing, jumping, or swimming. Examples include the following activities:

  • You attempt to climb a sheer or slippery cliff, avoid hazards while scaling a wall, or cling to a surface while something is trying to knock you off.

Correct, the DM has stakes in mind for success and failure when calling for an ability check in 5e. Some DMs even share those stakes with the player before the roll to reflect that the PC is a capable adventurer at least partly aware of the possible consequences of what they are attempting.
Yep, pretty much exactly in keeping with early Gygax D&D, PCs are assumed to be super competent, and specific class abilities really mostly only kick in when something would be 'impossible'.
 

I think there is just some room there in terms of how people interpret 'telegraph'. I think the classical definition would be a sort of less than overt way of communicating something. Telegraphing indicates that there is some indirection, the receiver of the message must make an inference. Now, wet = slippery could be seen as an inference, though its both A) rather obvious, and B) in terms of the real world not an attempt to communicate (wall doesn't talk). Thus not everyone will see it as the GM telegraphing something, though I don't think you are unreasonable to use the term that way.
I will grant that different people will have different ideas as to what constitutes telegraphing.

Frankly I have to agree with @Oofta on this one, to think that GMs are able to describe every possibly relevant fact, or even have such facts at hand, is a pipe dream.
I think we all agree the DM can't possibly describe every possible relevant fact about an environment nor would the players tolerate such monologues. But, if there is something important and possibly dangerous in said environment, I would hope the DM would have that in mind when giving their brief description of the environment in step one of the play loop.

Most of the time a wall is just a pencil line on a dungeon map, and perhaps there's been a note made that this level is damp, or maybe not. Frankly I think 90% of GMs will assume that a climb check incorporates some reasonable uncertainty as to the exact conditions of Wall X.
I mean, they could call for a check for 9 out of 10 climbs but, if there are no difficulties involved, why bother? Let the PCs have their movement "victory" and get on to the good stuff. The 5e rules/guidance on Strength ability checks support this.

Gygax didn't even have a handle on this, in OD&D and 1e PHB climb walls is described as the ability of a thief to climb SHEER SMOOTH WALLS (impossible climbs). LATER, in the DMG IIRC that was amended somewhat as there were adjustments provided, up and down, for wall condition, so the ability changed (and thus arose the question of how to adjudicate non-thieves climbing).
Old edition rules are old. :)
 

I think we all agree the DM can't possibly describe every possible relevant fact about an environment nor would the players tolerate such monologues. But, if there is something important and possibly dangerous in said environment, I would hope the DM would have that in mind when giving their brief description of the environment in step one of the play loop.
Eh, GMs often have a poor handle on what the players are going to fix on. I've GMed thousands of RPG sessions, players still manage to surprise me sometimes. I agree, once someone says they are going in a certain direction, the GM needs to assess exactly what is up. That is true in most systems, certainly 5e.
I mean, they could call for a check for 9 out of 10 climbs but, if there are no difficulties involved, why bother? Let the PCs have their movement "victory" and get on to the good stuff. The 5e rules/guidance on Strength ability checks support this.
Oh, I agree, my own system is much more militant on this kind of point, it fundamentally disallows the use of checks unless there are explicit stakes. Of course the GM could also narrate the PC falling on their butt and looking stupid, lol.
Old edition rules are old. :)
Time for a Wandering Grognard Check, what's your luck?
 

Climb checks can vary anywhere from automatic to nearly impossible or just plain impossible. If I describe a castle in good repair, the players may not realize that means that typically that would mean that there's a layer of plaster applied to the walls to prevent people from scaling them. Or they may do something I never expected so I have to decide what makes sense on the spot.

I don't want to waste time on things that don't add to the game because sometimes describing stuff is boring for me. I'd rather get to the action. That, and traps for things like doors are actually quite rare in my campaigns, do you really want to kill off the pizza delivery guy because you forgot to disable the ward on your front door? ;) That, and who maintains all these traps in centuries old dungeons? Lifetime warranties on traps would be a bitch to maintain if the lifetime includes liches.

So I just don't do the "you didn't tell me you were tapping the floor in front of you looking for traps so the floor eats you". I assume the PCs are reasonably competent and if an area is dangerous I'll let them know and they can decide how quickly they're moving through an area and I'll use passive values.

I guess I've just never had an issue if someone states something like "I climb the wall" and I say "It's going to require a climb check, give me a roll if you want to proceed" or "Unless you have magic, the wall is too smooth to climb" or "As you start to climb you realize there are plentiful handholds, no check is required". Not sure why anyone would have a problem with it.
 

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