Roll Surprise!

Presto2112 said:
It's completely incompatible! This is a d20 system, dangit! You can't just throw d6 mechanics around willy-nilly! :)

Fine "DC 7 surprise check everybody! Let me know if you have a feat or prestige class ability that modifies surprise."
 

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Arnwyn said:
Yeah I do, a little.

I'm a little unhappy that Spot and Listen are the new surprise rolls now, as I have a bit of a problem with certain classes such as fighters (read: guards) that are fundamentally easier to surprise.

Bleh.

The problem isn't that certain classes are fundamentally easier to surprise, its that too many classes have Spot as a class skill. Rolling Spot and Listen back to monks and rangers would model the old "less of a chance to be surprised" schtick of both of those classes in earlier editions.
 

Presto2112 said:
This has always been a slight bone of contention with me. Fighters are supposed to be elite warriors, and elite warriors should have fairly keen senses, especially if those elite warriors are on guard duty or something.

Feats are often special training. As "elite warriors", that implies special training. It's entirely in character for them to have the feat Alertness (+2 to Spot and Listen) and get that bonus.
 

Enkhidu said:
The problem isn't that certain classes are fundamentally easier to surprise, its that too many classes have Spot as a class skill. Rolling Spot and Listen back to monks and rangers would model the old "less of a chance to be surprised" schtick of both of those classes in earlier editions.
Whichever - I'm not picky as to which problem it is. In either case, the rules are flawed.
 

an_idol_mind said:
Why not just put the surprise roll back in? Have people roll 1d6 (or 1d10, if that floats your boat), with a 1 or 2 meaning you're surprised. It's not like it's completely incompatible with the rules.

I just might! That'll teach 'em. :]
 

That would be hilarious.

DM "Rolled for surprise and you are indeed."

Player "I didn't know that you could roll for surprise anymore?"

DM cruel streak intiated "Seems like both the character and player are surprised." :D
 

The problem is that one surprise roll has been replaced by two rolls- spot and listen. If you roll a spot roll, then everyone bitches that they should have gotten a listen and vice versa. Simple is better. One solution would be to bundle spot and listen into a skill called alertness or something. Any class who has either spot or listen has this skill, any class with both gets a +4 to their roll.
 

Frostmarrow said:
Does anyone else miss the surprise roll in D&D? I miss it so bad it hurts. ;) There is much satisfaction in yelling "Surprise!" at your players that the whimper of "Everbody, roll spot!" just can't grant.

Why, oh why did they remove this from the game? -It was sacrificed on the altar of streamlined mechanics I tell you. And that's sad. I mean Monte Cook kept the Sanity rules for CoC d20 so why did they kill the suspense of... "SURPRISE!".
I, too, have fond memories of the old surprise system. The "surprise round" in 3.5 just doesn't have the same "zing"...:p
 

JRRNeiklot said:
The problem is that one surprise roll has been replaced by two rolls- spot and listen. If you roll a spot roll, then everyone bitches that they should have gotten a listen and vice versa. Simple is better. One solution would be to bundle spot and listen into a skill called alertness or something. Any class who has either spot or listen has this skill, any class with both gets a +4 to their roll.


I am pretty sure Monte Cook did this in his Arcana Evolved setting, as well as Mearls' Iron Heroes. IIRC the skill was called, "Notice," or something similar. Also, Hide in shadows and Move silently became, "Sneak," I think.
 


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