Roll with it requirements.

[iwatt]

The feat has the following requirements: Toughness, and Con 20.

So my younger brother has a barbarian who wants this feat. He currently has a con of 18. He has two questions regarding this feat:

1) When he's raging, his Con rises to 22, so he could have this feat which would only work when he's raging. I personnaly don't have any diffculties with this, since it would be the same as giving a Str9 halfling barbarian use of the powera attack feat only when he rages.
2) The second one involves Toughness. This is a lame-ass feat, specially for a barbarian with a High Con. So my brother asked me wetehr or not taking Dwarf´s toughness or Giant's Toughness would count as the requirement for "Roll with it". From the letter of the rules, these feats could count as fullfilling the prerequisites, but it seems slightly empowered, considering the designers proba<bly put toughness in as a low-powred gateway feat in the first place.

So What does the ENworld brain trsut think of these ideas. I'm not the GM in this game, but my brother's GM usually asks for my opinion in these matters since I spend a great amount of time lurking in these boards.

 

[Kharne]

I would probably allow the player to switch it out for Dwarf's toughness but not the Giant's toughness. Then again, you're talking to someone that has been using the Neverwinter Nights toughness since that game came out...giving +1hp/level, even retroactively. Actually, from the letter of the rules, it seems to me that Dwarf's or Giant's toughness would not fulfill the requirement but I don't see it as a problem...at least it wouldn't be IMC.

As far as the Con requirement for the feat...I think that, technically, he wouldn't be allowed to do that. However, that said, I think it's actually a pretty cool concept and the fact that he would have to be raging in order to use it would be somewhat self-limiting.

 

[Sejs]

1) I'd say yep for the Only While Raging thing. That would be fine IMO.

2) Just use the Toughness = 1hp/level thing.. actually makes Toughness kinda cool - one feat lets you up your con mod for hp by 1 each time you take it. If you want to use the later iteration of the old style toughness.. yeah, don't see why not. It's still Toughness.. just toughness with higher pre-reqs

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Since you posted this in the rules forum, I'm going to give you my take on the rules as is. Of course, your DM might want to house rule them to give your brother a break.

1) When he's raging, his Con rises to 22, so he could have this feat which would only work when he's raging. I personnaly don't have any diffculties with this, since it would be the same as giving a Str9 halfling barbarian use of the powera attack feat only when he rages.

No. You have to actually have the prerequisite to take a feat. If this were possible, then it would also be possible for the low-int fighter to have Fox's Cunning cast on him to take the Expertise feat, or Cat's Grace to qualify for Dodge. Temporary stat boosts do not allow one to fulfill feat requirements, and though non-magical in nature, the barbarian's rage is still a temporary stat boost.

2) The second one involves Toughness. This is a lame-ass feat, specially for a barbarian with a High Con. So my brother asked me wetehr or not taking Dwarf´s toughness or Giant's Toughness would count as the requirement for "Roll with it". From the letter of the rules, these feats could count as fullfilling the prerequisites, but it seems slightly empowered, considering the designers proba<bly put toughness in as a low-powred gateway feat in the first place.

You've hit it on the nose. Toughness is meant to be a useless feat, required solely for the express purpose of being a suboptimal sacrifice a PC makes to qualify for Roll With It. Allowing Dwarf's or Giant's Toughness partially negates the "price" of the feat. Not doable.

So What does the ENworld brain trsut think of these ideas. I'm not the GM in this game, but my brother's GM usually asks for my opinion in these matters since I spend a great amount of time lurking in these boards.

If I were the DM, I'd allow any of the Toughness feats (Dwarf's, Giant's, Dragon's,) to fulfill the Toughness requirement. But he'd have to have a constant 20 Con. An amulet of health worn for most of the previous level would work, but barbarian's rage or an Endurance spell would not statisfy the feat requirements.

 

[Ravellion]

From the SRD:

Prerequisites: Some feats have prerequisites. A character must have the listed ability score, feat, skill, or base attack bonus in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite.

A character can’t use a feat if the character has lost a prerequisite.

Now, literally, you can't take it. But the last line does give a precedent for simply allowing it to be used part time.

I'd definitely not change the toughness requirement, for reasons mentioned earlier.

Rav