Roll20: A new virtual tabletop focused on storytelling

[Janx]

I view this in the opposite light (probably because I play Savage Worlds - a game reknown for exploding dice and cards). If you are going to make a generic format, then you have to consider these items up front. If you are going to do them last, then I may as well use Google+ hangout (I think there is a app floating around to do a basic battlemat these days).

As part of the snippet you quoted, note that I also said Exploding Dice could be modeled with Macros. Making it a junior dev or end user task, not a senior dev task.

Or, pick 3 or 4 popular games and have overlays that does the basics of those games well. Or pick one game system and nail it so even a n00b can just log in and play and let people clamor for you to do their system of choice.

I suspect Roll20's approach is to not touch specific game rules or unusual mechanics and be agnostic by not touching any game rules. You don't NEED to have your character loaded up into VTT to play a game. And technically, more RPGs have simple dice mechanics like D&D than not. So effectively, they HAVE chosen 3 or 4 popular games. All the ones with mechanics that can be expressed with basic dice notation as (XdY +/- V)

It may be considered that the very act of having game mechanic support is what is driving up the complexity of VTTs. Get it back down to what my kitchen table does, hold a battlemat, and present all the players together, and make it easy to communicate to each other.

 

[Matchstick]

Just in case no one has seen it, here's an option that uses Google+ Hangouts.

Features | Tabletop Forge

 

[Dannager]

You don't NEED to have your character loaded up into VTT to play a game.

You don't need video chat either, but it's much nicer to have it integrated into the program than be forced to figure out an external solution to what most VTTs have already solved internally.

It may be considered that the very act of having game mechanic support is what is driving up the complexity of VTTs. Get it back down to what my kitchen table does, hold a battlemat, and present all the players together, and make it easy to communicate to each other.

I don't see any reason to treat VTTs as literal virtual tabletops. They have the potential to be so much more that's it's kind of depressing to see people asking for nothing more than we already have.

 

[Janx]

You don't need video chat either, but it's much nicer to have it integrated into the program than be forced to figure out an external solution to what most VTTs have already solved internally.

bear in mind, I'm not against having it hold charsheet info either. But I run a development team, and I know how to spot what's really important and what's can be left for the next release. Not everybody is going to agree with me, but then, people don't agree with what Apple does either, but they make their bones knowing more about what customers need than most of the customers.

I don't see any reason to treat VTTs as literal virtual tabletops. They have the potential to be so much more that's it's kind of depressing to see people asking for nothing more than we already have.

I don't think we HAVE it yet. Most VTTs are cumbersome and they FAIL to deliver a unified communications experience. Everybody has a chat room and dice roller. Most have a battlemat. It sounds like only 2 very new projects have built in voice and video conferencing.

I think voice and video conferencing are the big ticket items. Up until Google Hangouts, you could NOT get a free video conferencing suite that handled multi-way. Even voice was challenging to do (I think Skype can do multi-way voice).

having played online D&D without my char sheet loaded, while I can appreciate the benefits, thats not a requirement for me. It's an advanced feature for SOME players who are saavy enough to use it.

 

[Dannager]

I don't think we HAVE it yet. Most VTTs are cumbersome and they FAIL to deliver a unified communications experience.

But they succeed in providing an integrated character sheet option. I'd like for this new project to be a clear step forward, not a step sideways. Replacing common features with a less common feature is not, to my mind, a step forward. It's just a reconfiguring of priorities.

 

[Janx]

But they succeed in providing an integrated character sheet option. I'd like for this new project to be a clear step forward, not a step sideways. Replacing common features with a less common feature is not, to my mind, a step forward. It's just a reconfiguring of priorities.

I posit that putting in all that data MIGHT be the failure. Like I said some time upthread, I was able to successfully RP over IRC with a paper char sheet and dice commands in the chat window.

Yes, I added some combat stat integration, but's that's because I'm a programmer and know how to make that happen.

My GM stuck to basic text and hardly made use of the functions I made for him.

Which is why I'm curious to see this Roll20. Getting rid of the mechanical stuff MIGHT be exactly what people need.

I could be wrong. But I think I see what their approach is.

 

[Dannager]

I posit that putting in all that data MIGHT be the failure. Like I said some time upthread, I was able to successfully RP over IRC with a paper char sheet and dice commands in the chat window.

Yes, I added some combat stat integration, but's that's because I'm a programmer and know how to make that happen.

My GM stuck to basic text and hardly made use of the functions I made for him.

Which is why I'm curious to see this Roll20. Getting rid of the mechanical stuff MIGHT be exactly what people need.

I could be wrong. But I think I see what their approach is.

I think what people need is a user experience that makes it no more difficult and no less enjoyable to play a game over the internet in front of their computers and webcams than playing a game over a kitchen table with everyone in the same room. The closer we can get to that experience, the better.

 

[Mercutio01]

I don't see how integrated character sheets and predetermined macros for rolling dice emulates sitting around a table. Whereas I do see integrated video and voice chat, character sheets that no one else can see, and the individual rolling of dice where the mechanics get out of the way of the game to be much more emblematic of my experience around a the game table.

Obviously different strokes for different folks. I use MapTool because it's the best of the free options, but what I see from Roll20 makes me think that maybe it could fill my needs a bit better, especially since I don't (and can't) make use of the advanced application add-ons of MapTool and am pretty much typing in all my dice rolls by hand and storing character sheets in different places anyway.

 

[Dannager]

I don't see how integrated character sheets and predetermined macros for rolling dice emulates sitting around a table.

It's not about emulating the very act of sitting around a table. It's about negating the immense gulf that exists between how games play in real life and how games play on the internet.

When the DM needs to check your sheet to make sure you're keeping track of your surges/HP/spells/item uses properly in the middle of an adventure, at a table in real life it's a matter of reaching over and taking a glance at the sheet. On the internet, it's a matter of having the player keep track of his sheet digitally, save what he's working on, upload it somewhere accessible, and provide the link to the DM, who then has to open a separate app, download the file, and look it over. As opposed to an integrated, shareable sheet that the DM can take a look at whenever he needs to.

 

[Mercutio01]

It's not about emulating the very act of sitting around a table. It's about negating the immense gulf that exists between how games play in real life and how games play on the internet.

When the DM needs to check your sheet to make sure you're keeping track of your surges/HP/spells/item uses properly in the middle of an adventure, at a table in real life it's a matter of reaching over and taking a glance at the sheet. On the internet, it's a matter of having the player keep track of his sheet digitally, save what he's working on, upload it somewhere accessible, and provide the link to the DM, who then has to open a separate app, download the file, and look it over. As opposed to an integrated, shareable sheet that the DM can take a look at whenever he needs to.

See, that's a different gaming experience than my own. I've never had a GM do that, and as GM I've never done that either. I trust my players to be honest, and I don't generally game with people that I can't trust like that.