transtemporal
Explorer
I appreciate the thought man but I'm not unclear about anything. I just don't like the software, sorry.
D&D 5E Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds?
- Thread starter Grakarg
- Start date
I appreciate the thought man but I'm not unclear about anything. I just don't like the software, sorry.
Doc_Klueless
Doors and Corners
First off, anyone who knows me here on ENW, knows that I'm not argumentative nor am I trollish, so take what I have to say next is a completely non-confrontational way:
For me, it's a simple time vs money statement. I have very little free time as I'm a single dad with a teenage daughter. However I make a very good living and have the extra cash laying around to pay for fantasy grounds (though to be honest the buy in costs of Fantasy Grounds is fairly low: A $10 subscription and another $3 for the basic rules gives you everything you need to play D&D with your friends online as the ultimate license subscription means they don't have to pay anything. To get the full 5e rules can be seen as very pricey. I won't argue that. $50 for the full PHB and $50 for the full MM. However, those rules sets work very smoothly with the FG interface, I don't have to learn how to code/enter/what-have-you anything and (as shallow as it is) it looks pretty.
I plan on using FG to run 5e for years. That $100 over a year comes out to about $8.50 a month. So for 18.50 a month (though really it's $110 the first month and $10 every month after that), I get a nice looking VTT that works well, is constantly updated and bug-squashed, has a amazing support system of users and developers, and works very well for me, my needs and within the bounds of the amount of free time I have available to prepare, run and participate in games.
As a player, my costs would be even lower. As in free as long as the DM has the ultimate license and $4 a month if he doesn't. It's a very small out of pocket expense as a player and I can play in multiple games and game systems.
Roll20 is not without its costs as well. Dynamic lighting and line of site for example is NOT free. It requires a Supporter subscription and that's $4.99 a month though that is probably only on the DMs end of things (just like the FG ultimate license is only on the DM). For all the really cool stuff, it's a Mentor subscription for $9.99 a month. Then you need to take lots of time to enter things into roll20 which for some people (and there are lots of those) is a non-issue and worth the cost savings, however much that may be. I don't have that time. So that is a huge cost for me. And it might be for lots of others.
I've played games on roll20 and I think it's awesome. No doubt about it. If I'm a player in a game, I have no qualms whatsoever in using roll20. As DM, I just don't have the time. Ok, I might have plenty of time if I were to use roll20 often and become polished in how to use it, but that would still take me lots of times because I'm not tech savvy and the simplest things can sometimes take me forever to figure out even with help.
tldr: In short, FG is worth the cost in money for the savings in time for me. Both VTT work wonderfully for playing with people over the internet. Neither FG nor roll20 is free if you go anywhere above the basics of the programs. I guess that's all I had to say. Except this: Good Gaming, everyone!
For me, it's a simple time vs money statement. I have very little free time as I'm a single dad with a teenage daughter. However I make a very good living and have the extra cash laying around to pay for fantasy grounds (though to be honest the buy in costs of Fantasy Grounds is fairly low: A $10 subscription and another $3 for the basic rules gives you everything you need to play D&D with your friends online as the ultimate license subscription means they don't have to pay anything. To get the full 5e rules can be seen as very pricey. I won't argue that. $50 for the full PHB and $50 for the full MM. However, those rules sets work very smoothly with the FG interface, I don't have to learn how to code/enter/what-have-you anything and (as shallow as it is) it looks pretty.
I plan on using FG to run 5e for years. That $100 over a year comes out to about $8.50 a month. So for 18.50 a month (though really it's $110 the first month and $10 every month after that), I get a nice looking VTT that works well, is constantly updated and bug-squashed, has a amazing support system of users and developers, and works very well for me, my needs and within the bounds of the amount of free time I have available to prepare, run and participate in games.As a player, my costs would be even lower. As in free as long as the DM has the ultimate license and $4 a month if he doesn't. It's a very small out of pocket expense as a player and I can play in multiple games and game systems.
Roll20 is not without its costs as well. Dynamic lighting and line of site for example is NOT free. It requires a Supporter subscription and that's $4.99 a month though that is probably only on the DMs end of things (just like the FG ultimate license is only on the DM). For all the really cool stuff, it's a Mentor subscription for $9.99 a month. Then you need to take lots of time to enter things into roll20 which for some people (and there are lots of those) is a non-issue and worth the cost savings, however much that may be. I don't have that time. So that is a huge cost for me. And it might be for lots of others.
I've played games on roll20 and I think it's awesome. No doubt about it. If I'm a player in a game, I have no qualms whatsoever in using roll20. As DM, I just don't have the time. Ok, I might have plenty of time if I were to use roll20 often and become polished in how to use it, but that would still take me lots of times because I'm not tech savvy and the simplest things can sometimes take me forever to figure out even with help.
tldr: In short, FG is worth the cost in money for the savings in time for me. Both VTT work wonderfully for playing with people over the internet. Neither FG nor roll20 is free if you go anywhere above the basics of the programs. I guess that's all I had to say. Except this: Good Gaming, everyone!
Doc_Klueless
Doors and Corners
I think this is perhaps the best argument possible against either roll20 or FG or any VTT. Sometimes you (general) just don't like the software or experience. Hope you found something that works for you!
Doc_Klueless
Doors and Corners
I didn't want to cut apart you're post for my (admittedly outsider) response to this but I think it goes something like this: FG was created. The now owners bought it and updated the program. However, the program is old and doesn't support some of the nicer features of roll20. Owners/developers know this and are currently in the process of rewriting/porting/magicing (I'm not a programmer, so it's ALL magic to me) over to Unity so that they can do music, dynamic lighting, etc.
As a DM, I found setting up dynamic lighting to be a gigantic pain in the ass (note the part above where I say I'm not a programmer? alter that to say tech savvy, computer literate, what have you! I'm all thumbs when it comes to such things.
) As a player, I totally agree with you. Dynamic lighting is the BOMB! and the music inline is fantastic! You'll get no argument from me about that! I'm looking very much forward to when FG is using Unity and they have those features available.Others have already pointed out that FG is always doing improvements, etc., but I didn't see the above pointed out anywhere.
I really, really like playing on roll20. I really, really didn't like DMing on roll20. I guess that's what it came down to.
Nylanfs
Hero
No the extensions are hosted in their forums and are free. And there's a LOT of non-licensed improvements in that list of patch notes.
smiteworks
Adventurer
One thing to consider is that the subscriptions for Fantasy Grounds don't require any commitment on the length of the sub. You can choose to try it out for 1 month as regular sub ($3.99) and then pick up the D&D Basic Rules Pack ($3.99) and then decide from there if you want to go up to an Ultimate sub at ($9.99) or pick up any further packs. For running a face-to-face game and using FG as a GM Aid only, you would just need the $3.99 sub and the module of your choice. Those are $19.99 for the Lost Mine of Phandelver (which includes the theme and D&D basic rules), Hoard of the Dragon Queen or The Rise of Tiamat. Princes of the Apocalypse just released and is $34.99, but also twice as much content of the other adventures.
The stats for all the monsters are included with each of the adventures, so you don't even need to pick up the MM pack (D&D Complete Monster Pack.)
* Subs can be cancelled whenever you want.
The stats for all the monsters are included with each of the adventures, so you don't even need to pick up the MM pack (D&D Complete Monster Pack.)
* Subs can be cancelled whenever you want.
I really like Roll20...I truly appreciate everything they do for the community and their constant improvements and willingness to accept feedback and update their software.
That being said...I really am a convert to Fantasy Grounds. I really enjoy this software and how easy it is to manage and run campaigns. I really can't say enough good things about it.
My one and only complaint is the lack of mapping tools, but that's a minor complaint in light of everything else the tool can do.
That being said...I really am a convert to Fantasy Grounds. I really enjoy this software and how easy it is to manage and run campaigns. I really can't say enough good things about it.
My one and only complaint is the lack of mapping tools, but that's a minor complaint in light of everything else the tool can do.
Hussar
Legend
I agree with everything here. I like FG. But, the mapping tools are bloody archaic. I do miss the utility of Maptools where you could make clickable objects on the map, and making adjustments to the base map was pretty simple.
I guess my only real complaint though would be the FG wiki. Good grief, who wrote this thing? Stereo instruction manual or what? I was looking for the syntax for writing my own attack macro and adding in a poison condition and the wiki was very much no help. The system is very much not intuitive and I've really had to watch the instruction videos very carefully to do anything. With Maptools or Roll20, I could dive right in.
For me, at least, that would be my biggest barrier. Fantasy Grounds is less user friendly than Maptool. And that's saying a LOT.
pming
Legend
Hiya.
My 2¢...
Roll20 if you are just looking to go 'fast and loose' without a lot of 'serious campaign' overtones. Roll20 is like a "pick up game...for fun...something we can do for a few sessions while everyone is available". Yes, you can use it for serious campaign running...adding in every little map, linking them, adding monster tokens, all that stuff. But that takes time. It takes about as much time as FG, from what I have experienced/seen. It's easy to use as a "hey everyone, why don't we finish this little module off online tomorrow? Shouldn't take more than an hour or two. Pop on to Roll20 and look for -dangerousdansdungeon-, password will be sassafras".
Fantasy Grounds if you are wanting to run a "serious, long term game". It takes more time, initially, to set up the basics for your game. It takes about the same amount of time if you want to import all your own monsters, adventure maps, etc. as Roll20 does. However, you can buy 'pre-done' stuff for FG that covers a LOT of stuff. You can also buy modules and support books, or DL for free a lot of fan made stuff. That right there kills a TON of time...like hours and hours and hours of it. FG seems to also be a bit more "long-term" in feel of campaigns. I can't quite put my finger on it, but with FG I always felt "serious" as a DM. When I tried to get up to speed on how to set up a campaign and all that for Roll20 I didn't have that feeling...it felt more 'beer-n-pretzels' style game-like for some reaosn. *shrug* Personal feelings there...results may vary.
Anyway, if I was just needing something for "whenever the online mood strikes me", I'd go with Roll20. If I was wanting to get a serious, long term (re: multi-months at a minimum...year+ or better, really) then I'd definitely go with FG.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
My 2¢...
Roll20 if you are just looking to go 'fast and loose' without a lot of 'serious campaign' overtones. Roll20 is like a "pick up game...for fun...something we can do for a few sessions while everyone is available". Yes, you can use it for serious campaign running...adding in every little map, linking them, adding monster tokens, all that stuff. But that takes time. It takes about as much time as FG, from what I have experienced/seen. It's easy to use as a "hey everyone, why don't we finish this little module off online tomorrow? Shouldn't take more than an hour or two. Pop on to Roll20 and look for -dangerousdansdungeon-, password will be sassafras".
Fantasy Grounds if you are wanting to run a "serious, long term game". It takes more time, initially, to set up the basics for your game. It takes about the same amount of time if you want to import all your own monsters, adventure maps, etc. as Roll20 does. However, you can buy 'pre-done' stuff for FG that covers a LOT of stuff. You can also buy modules and support books, or DL for free a lot of fan made stuff. That right there kills a TON of time...like hours and hours and hours of it. FG seems to also be a bit more "long-term" in feel of campaigns. I can't quite put my finger on it, but with FG I always felt "serious" as a DM. When I tried to get up to speed on how to set up a campaign and all that for Roll20 I didn't have that feeling...it felt more 'beer-n-pretzels' style game-like for some reaosn. *shrug* Personal feelings there...results may vary.
Anyway, if I was just needing something for "whenever the online mood strikes me", I'd go with Roll20. If I was wanting to get a serious, long term (re: multi-months at a minimum...year+ or better, really) then I'd definitely go with FG.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
Hey smiteworks the D&D Basic Rules Pack is $2.99 not $3.99!
It includes 4 basic classes, 4 basic races, a stack of spells (about 200) and a stack of critters (about 200), equipments lists.
Really easy way to try out the basics of the 5e system. the full books contain much more info and features.
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