D&D 5E Rolled character stats higher than point buy?

This thread has gone pretty much as I had expected. Some people look at rolling as guaranteeing higher stats, others claim that they enjoy Stinky the Hapless Gnome when their buddy is playing Super Dave. Others (like myself) point out that basing a character's entire career around a one time random roll is not fun for some people.

What I'm curious about - do threads like these ever change anyone's mind? Because this is one of those zombie threads. I could have kept a copy of my old responses from the old WOTC forums for all that's changed.
 

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This thread has gone pretty much as I had expected. Some people look at rolling as guaranteeing higher stats, others claim that they enjoy Stinky the Hapless Gnome when their buddy is playing Super Dave. Others (like myself) point out that basing a character's entire career around a one time random roll is not fun for some people.

What I'm curious about - do threads like these ever change anyone's mind? Because this is one of those zombie threads. I could have kept a copy of my old responses from the old WOTC forums for all that's changed.

It also doesn't help that the line between strictly random and random plus cheating/fudging is rarely clear.
 

I agree with this, but in the context of D&D, I can think of no system that meets the competing criteria. I'd love to have one, and I've been racking my brain on and off over the problem for nearly 20 years now. If you've got a good solution, I'll happy gives you 20-30 XP for it.

There are two that I can think of off of the top of my head.

1) roll stats and then allow the player to switch a pair of them so that a high stat can be placed into the prime for the character concept. Random and control.

2) roll stats and allow stats to be lowered by 2 points in order to raise another stat by 1. Random and control.
 

What I'm curious about - do threads like these ever change anyone's mind?
I've seen people at least find new ideas of what to try in order to better get whatever it is they are looking for in threads like these, though that is not a very common sight and not quite the same as someone having changed their mind about the topic.

However, threads like these - more specifically, me seeing the attitudes described in threads like these in the players at my table over the years - have been a major contribution toward me personally arriving at my current attitude of "You know what guys, just get some scores you'll be happy to play the game with, I don't care how you do it - just that you do." So, that kind of counts, right?
 

My personal favorite method of rolling is not 4d6 straight down.

I let the players roll 5d6 take the best 3 twice, 4d6 take the best 3 twice, and 3d6 twice. Then I let them swap one pair of stats. Between aiming the 5d6 into prime stats and being able to switch a pair, they have enough control to make the PC they want, yet the rolls are still random.
 

I've seen people at least find new ideas of what to try in order to better get whatever it is they are looking for in threads like these, though that is not a very common sight and not quite the same as someone having changed their mind about the topic.

However, threads like these - more specifically, me seeing the attitudes described in threads like these in the players at my table over the years - have been a major contribution toward me personally arriving at my current attitude of "You know what guys, just get some scores you'll be happy to play the game with, I don't care how you do it - just that you do." So, that kind of counts, right?

Yep.

Best attitude for a DM, honestly.
 

There are two that I can think of off of the top of my head.

1) roll stats and then allow the player to switch a pair of them so that a high stat can be placed into the prime for the character concept. Random and control.

2) roll stats and allow stats to be lowered by 2 points in order to raise another stat by 1. Random and control.

I used both somewhere around 25 years ago, although in my case, the point swap was limited points from one stat to points to one other stat, but could be made at a 1:1 trade. This was an attempt to deal with the fact that most characters in 1e AD&D needed at least one 16, and were often incredibly stronger if they had even a single 18. Thus, you could usually make a character of some sort with one 18 if you wanted it. I did away with that method when it became clear in the context of 1e, most people where just dumping points from charisma into their highest stat.

But again, the swapping method only addresses one issue with randomness. It doesn't deal with the bigger issue of having a level playing field.

The methodology I'd lean toward now if I was forced to allow random ability score generation in D&D and depend on it is this:

a) Pick an ability score. Roll 3d6 straight up N times and take the result you want.
b) Repeat 'a' for a the remaining ability scores, in the order of your choosing. But each time you've taken a 16 or higher in a prior step roll 3d6 1 less time in all subsequent steps (minimum at least once). Alternately, taking 18's might deduct 2 dice; I'd have to play test this.
c) Everyone must watch you roll, and you must keep what you get and play it in good faith. This should not be hard, as for N = 6, you'll have pretty darn good stats. By controlling N, the group could set the average power level where they wanted it. And because the stats are guaranteed to be good and have very few terrible results.

That might work pretty decent, pending testing, but its horrendously complicated to perform this method with multiple players using real dice. And the temptation to cheat and all the consequences of that is still there, as I'm sure there would be that one guy that took 16+'s in everything and then said, "Alright. I got an 18 off of 3d6 straight up." Because, people.
 

My personal favorite method of rolling is not 4d6 straight down.

I let the players roll 5d6 take the best 3 twice, 4d6 take the best 3 twice, and 3d6 twice. Then I let them swap one pair of stats. Between aiming the 5d6 into prime stats and being able to switch a pair, they have enough control to make the PC they want, yet the rolls are still random.

That's not that different than the last method I was using (circa mid 1990's) before I gave up on dice rolling and switched to point buy, only I did 4d6 take 3, in order, but 5d6 take 3 in the ability of your choice. In retrospect, I probably would allow the one swap as well, but I adopted this as a replacement for a one swap, and it didn't occur to me to combine them.
 



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