Rolling for stats. Need some advice

[Greenfield]

I'm going to take a stab at answering that question. Apologies if I'm putting my foot in my mouth here.

Randomly rolled abilities seldom produce the single-stat focus that's optimum for classes that are single stat driven. Point buy always will.

For example, a Wizard always wants Intelligence. Dex, Con, Wis etc are nice but given the choice they'll always max Int. Point buy guarantees that you can do exactly that.

A fighter, on the other hand, needs Strength, Con and Dex, in about that order. A random roll system, such ad 4D6 drop lowest, is more likely to produce a couple of good stats, but no maxed ones.

If each gets to choose the system, the caster will always choose point buy. It favors the caster.

If there is a complaint about a system favoring casters, however, then falling back to the random roll creation system for all characters will help ease that imbalance by making single-stat classes harder to guarantee optimization on.

Does that make sense?

 

[Empirate]

Oh, OK. Never looked at it that way. However, with a MAD class, don't you need multiple above-average rolls to get what you need? Having one or two 16s and a bunch of 10s to 12s doesn't really help a Paladin or Monk. Having four 14s and two 8s, on the other hand... but that is hard to get with roll 4d6 drop lowest.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Oh, OK. Never looked at it that way. However, with a MAD class, don't you need multiple above-average rolls to get what you need? Having one or two 16s and a bunch of 10s to 12s doesn't really help a Paladin or Monk. Having four 14s and two 8s, on the other hand... but that is hard to get with roll 4d6 drop lowest.

This rolling only "solves" problems if you get what you wanted somehow. A player wanting to do a monk is plenty screwed if he rolls 18 17 12 11 10 9, while a caster would drool over that. You don't balance MAD vs. SAD by leaving it up to chance. At least with point buy the scores are weighted. For the price of 18 10 8, I could have 14 14 14 instead. I find that far more helpful to the MAD classes.

 

[Greenfield]

The fighter type will do better with point buy, don't get me wrong. He just won't enjoy as much of an advantage as a single-stat focused class.

Does this mean that not every combat type can be a great Paladin? Probably.

Random rolls are, by their very nature, random. You could rock the rolls, or end up with a top flight shopkeeper. You can't always predict, before the dice hit the table, what classes the character will be suited for. That's the price you pay when you roll dice.

 

[Dandu]

Which, I suppose, means you play the character the dice gods want you to, and not the one you necessarily wanted to?

I'm going to take a stab at answering that question. Apologies if I'm putting my foot in my mouth here.

Randomly rolled abilities seldom produce the single-stat focus that's optimum for classes that are single stat driven. Point buy always will.

For example, a Wizard always wants Intelligence. Dex, Con, Wis etc are nice but given the choice they'll always max Int. Point buy guarantees that you can do exactly that.

A fighter, on the other hand, needs Strength, Con and Dex, in about that order. A random roll system, such ad 4D6 drop lowest, is more likely to produce a couple of good stats, but no maxed ones.

If each gets to choose the system, the caster will always choose point buy. It favors the caster.

I would wager rolling favors casters as well.

Give me a set of rolls corresponding to what you would consider a couple of good stats but no maxed ones, and let's run some numbers.

 

[Empirate]

You can't always predict, before the dice hit the table, what classes the character will be suited for. That's the price you pay when you roll dice.

Now that's a huge step backwards, right into dark ugly 1E land. I, for one, am not going there.

 

[Ashtagon]

Which, I suppose, means you play the character the dice gods want you to, and not the one you necessarily wanted to?


I would wager rolling favors casters as well.

Give me a set of rolls corresponding to what you would consider a couple of good stats but no maxed ones, and let's run some numbers.

You're practiced at this. The only fair comparison would be for you to compare your "rolled stat" caster character with your "point buy" caster character.

 

[Dandu]

You're practiced at this. The only fair comparison would be for you to compare your "rolled stat" caster character with your "point buy" caster character.

Excellent idea.

First, though, I'll need an example of "a series of good stats but no maxed ones".

 

[Jacob Marley]

Excellent idea.

First, though, I'll need an example of "a series of good stats but no maxed ones".

Here you go.

16, 14, 14, 13, 13, 10

 

[Gray Lensman]

What not make an example of the "Standard Elite Array"? Vs Point Buy and then 1 to 3 4d6dl characters.

Heck for fun you could include the Homeriuled "Super Elite Array" one DM I know used sometimes. 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8 (and NO raising/lowering)