D&D General Rolling HPs

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Yeah exactly - Even if 5E, with max HP automatically at L1, if you roll say, 2, 3, 2 for the next few levels, as say, a Fighter, or Barbarian, or whatever, you're going to drastically weaker than expected, and basically forever. Yeah you might roll better for L5 and onwards but equally you might get 5, 3, 4 and even though that's better, you continue to be crippled in a way that nothing else can do to you.
Yep - that's life.

Some people are just naturally tougher than others. And a Fighter that consistently rolls 2s on hit hit dice is just going to have to look at options that don't involve front-line work e.g. archery; while a Rogue that maxes out every time might want to consider standing in and putting all those hit points to use now and then. :)

Horwath said:
I hate rolling for HPs or ability scores.

It is simply not reliable.
That's the whole point. It's not supposed to be reliable.
 

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Horwath

Legend
Yep - that's life.

Yes, it is. But even life has some rules to make it as fair as possible. Well, depending on how corrupt you country is. I wont go into this further because, politics.

Some people are just naturally tougher than others.

yes, and in D&D I see that as point buy more into constitution, play a dwarf, or take toughness feat.

And a Fighter that consistently rolls 2s on hit hit dice is just going to have to look at options that don't involve front-line work e.g. archery; while a Rogue that maxes out every time might want to consider standing in and putting all those hit points to use now and then. :)

see above,


That's the whole point. It's not supposed to be reliable.

but the rules are here to make is as fair as possible to all.

D&D is already very luck biased vs skill game. at least the combat part. No need to push it towards 99% luck over skill.
 

Yep - that's life.

Some people are just naturally tougher than others. And a Fighter that consistently rolls 2s on hit hit dice is just going to have to look at options that don't involve front-line work e.g. archery; while a Rogue that maxes out every time might want to consider standing in and putting all those hit points to use now and then. :)

That's the whole point. It's not supposed to be reliable.

That's definitely not the whole point, it's actually been an issue D&D has struggled with for decades, and makes no actual sense at all in the modern framework of the rules (5E). It's fine in disposable-character-type OSR games, but anything that pretends to any kind of balance, it's absolute the worst design element in D&D. I think in one of the very first issues of Dragon I read they were talking about alternatives to rolling HP (so late 1980s early 1990s). And in 5E, RAW, it's a player choice. Any DM overriding it is going into house-rules territory and breaking a fairly fundamental RAW/RAI point.

Your suggestion is an outright bad suggestion in 5E, because it's too late at that point. You can't "become an archer" suddenly, because at L1, you don't roll HP (unless you're playing a serious homebrew), and you have to decide whether to focus on STR or DEX then, when you choose what stat goes where, and pick your Fighting Style. Most Fighters will choose STR, because the player wants to play a brave warrior who fights from the front. And everything about his character will say that. Except this weird random roll, that is at odds with the entire game design (which again is why it's optional and player-chosen, not DM-chosen, RAW). It would be even worse if say, you started rolling really poorly after L3, because then you'd be locked into a subclass as well, and if it wasn't a ranged one, you'd be stuffed, and just have an ineffective character, through literally no fault of your own.

It also disproportionately impacts certain classes - specifically those with a larger HD. Wizards, for example, are designed around 1d6. If the roll low, it's bad, but it's not a total disaster for the character because they're balanced around pretty low HP. But if a Barbarian rolls low, that cripples his character. And because this is a matter of a single dice roll per level, with no possibility to correct or recover, that's it.

At least RAW, in 5E, you as the player can go "Okay, wow, last two levels I rolled a 1 for HP, I'm going to go with fixed HP from now on!" and somewhat rescue yourself that way.

Anyway, rolling HP is a sacred cow long past it's meeting with the burger plant. It's literally only still there as a sacred cow.


(Also, I have to say, personal experience, but I'm always suspicious of people who push it as "essential" or whatever, because when I've seen the non-OSR melee characters that belong to those people, they universally have waaaaay above-average HP, or they're casters with at least average HP, and I never see "Wow that guy clearly rolled a bunch of 1s for HP!" characters belonging to them. So I'm not saying they definitely don't practice what they preach, or just cheat or fudge, but mathematically, it's likely one of those is happening... The only guy I ever called on it online, got all hoity-toity and say that his DM had "forced" him to re-roll some bad rolls, but he still preferred rolling... Yeah okay buddy sure that definitely was how that went down, and you preaching the virtues of rolling a 1 for HP is not at all hypocritical...

OSR is a different kettle of fish, of course. I've seen plenty of "honest men" who roll their HP there.)
 
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Oofta

Legend
We used to roll until you got average or above. Even back in 1E days. Now we just use max at first, average round up.

Bad luck at die rolls should not ruin a character concept. Random is fine for attacks, saves and what-not because it averages out over time. Roll poorly even a few times on your barbarian and you might as well write up a new PC.
 

Vendral

Explorer
We have always rolled however with some adjustments for the rolls so that you get decent values and survivability at low levels.
In our current campaing you get:
Lvl 1: get max HP
Lvl 2: if roll is below average, get average rounded up
Lvl 3: if roll is 2 or below, get3
Lvl 4: if roll is 1, get 2
Lvl 5+: whatever is rolled

/Vendral
 


TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
I thought about doing the reroll all HD when you level and if your new total is higher, you keep it. I am glad to hear someone is doing something similar. I assume it is working out well for you?
Yea, people seem to like it. It takes the sting out of bad rolls, since you really only need to get lucky once. Last time I checked, just about everyone is right around 20-25% above average roll expectation, with one outlier who's at like 40% above.
 

Oofta

Legend
Wow. Lots of insults if you don't want to risk your 10th level barbarian who rolled poorly having fewer HP than the wizard who rolled well. Or having their buddy over there with triple the HP with the exact same class and ability scores.

Not quite as bad as early editions where stats had to be super-high to add a bonus, but still. I've never understood why it's a bad thing to have some predictability and balance. Random has no inherent value. :unsure:

One shot? Short term? Meh, still not for me. But a PC I hope to play for a year or more and you require random HP? Next game/DM for me please!
 

Horwath

Legend
We have always rolled however with some adjustments for the rolls so that you get decent values and survivability at low levels.
In our current campaing you get:
Lvl 1: get max HP
Lvl 2: if roll is below average, get average rounded up
Lvl 3: if roll is 2 or below, get3
Lvl 4: if roll is 1, get 2
Lvl 5+: whatever is rolled

/Vendral

great for wizards, not so much for barbarians...
 

jgsugden

Legend
Players can roll, but they take what they get if they roll. If the HP total ends up low, we work something into the game to 'fix the problem', but it remains a part of the character's situation in a significant way. However, all rolls must be witnessed by the entire group.

On a personal note: The only area of D&D where I have abnormal luck is in hp rolls. It is either well below average (An old school paladin that had less than 15 hps at 6th level), or very good (I had a monk that rolled max hps through 6th level).
 
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