Rolling initiative in groups?

[Harr]

I just came across the rule where you roll initiative only for for each type of monter in an encounter, and not every individual combatant. I've always rolled individually in my games, but I have to admint that it's becoming a real PitA with minions and such.

But I'm leery of switching to group initiative because it just seems to make combat very swingy and unstable, I think. It seems to me that a character could easily get surrounded and overwhelmed by 8-10 kobold minions that automatically all act at the exact same time!

So I'd like to ask anyone who actually has good actual play experience with group-initiative, is it as swingy as it seems? Do you get unstoppable floods of enemies? Or does it somehow balance out in the end? Is the increase in efficiency/speed worth it when you say 'ok now these 7 kobolds all get a turn'?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I can't really compare, since the last time we didn't use group initiative has been a long time. I think it works fine. It' simply so much quicker to do then rolling for each monster.

There might be a little more swinginess, but generally, it becomes not swingy if a lot of monsters go first, but if the most powerful monster goes first. (in 3E, this could mean instant death due to massive damage or spells. It might be lessened in 4E...) Groups of monsters are typically weaker.

 

[Mort_Q]

Given the number of monsters that have special abilities or bonuses if they are adjacent, to use their tactics to the fullest, you'd have in many cases the high initiative monsters holding actions anyway.

May as well roll once for packs or groups.

 

[Andur]

I've used the rolling by type mechanic for years. All the grunts go on this roll, the leader types get their own rolls. Your basic "goal" should be to not roll anymore Init rolls than the player's do. So if you have 5 players the DM shouldn't roll more than 5 Init rolls. Less is fine.

Since 4e encounter mechanic is based upon "balanced" XP, you can just divide the NPC's by Xp = 1 PC and roll for each lot, thus if you have a party of 4 and 16 minions you make 4 Init. rolls one for each group of 4. (Use different minis for each group though)

 

[Clavis]

I've used group initiative for most combats for 20+ years, and it makes combats much faster and your job as a DM much easier, especially if there are lots of combatants. Yes, it can be bad if you have a character surrounded by a large group of opponents. Solution: don't surround low HP characters with opponents, unless the plan is to get rid of the PC's excess Hit Points. If you use pre-written adventures, simply adjust the amount of opponents to either make the encounter easier or tougher.

 

[Mort_Q]

I just recalled something that someone else on these boards mentioned that is even a greater time saver.

Have the monsters take 10 on their initiative rolls.

You can simply have your cards in the correct order (if you use cards) and add the PC cards in the correct spots.

Perhaps take 5 for the mooks, and let the solos roll...

 

[malraux]

If I had everything in dmgenie, then I went with individual init for everyone. If I was running stuff from paper, then I went with logical groups. But I'd think that a mass of minions should all go on the same init if possible, as the whole point of them is to be a mob that's only powerful in groups.

 

[Mort_Q]

Having multiple swarms act as one could lead to some rather nasty battles.

 

[Harr]

Awesome ideas, thanks everyone

I've warmed up to the idea of group-init and will apply it in my next game (which happens to be tonight woohoo).

I think what sounds best so far is to group enemies into XP-chunks similar to a single PC. So, I'll group minions into groups of up to 7 each (if it reaches 8 I'll divide em into groups of 4).

Then I'll group identical monsters together until I have the same number of rolls as the party (which shouldn't take much once the minions are grouped up).

Keeping track of which group is which is no problem since I use a projector with Maptool, and it has colored token 'halos' just for this purpose.

I'll also take the awesome idea of 'taking 10', except I'll have just regular monsters take 10 while minions take 14 and elites/solos take 7/4 respectively (it makes sense to me that minions tend to be thrown into the front lines before their masters, and it seems like it would help the combat-balance).

This definitely sounds like it could turn out to be a major improvement in my games

 

[WampusCat43]

Mort's idea is what I've been doing for a long time, and it works the best of any idea.

Question about your use of Maptools - do you use miniatures, and put halos around them, or use digital representations of the combatants?

We use a projector with the miniatures, which is awesome, but it does make it hard to tell individual minion-types apart. Moving the halo and the figure wouldn't help speed, though.