Romans Puzzle! I have the solution! (The Puzzle that killed a campaign)

[Tuzenbach]

This was definitely unsolvable for us on the boards. The diagram Roman gave us (of which Mark made the nice color version) doesn't fit the solution provided by the DM. The count on the upper left section of circles should have been 29, while the count on the upper area of arrows should have been 30. Then the count of the circle areas would have been 29/19/13 (obviously odd & also prime) & the count on the arrows would have been 30/20/10 (obviously even) with the count on the triangles being 33/21/15 (obviously odd). Then recognizing that the count on the blanks was 25/8/2 could be more obviously matched up to the existing groups.

But the version of the puzzle we saw had counts of the following:
circles - 30/19/13
arrows - 29/20/10
triangles - 33/21/15
blanks - 25/8/2
With no pattern in the counts, there was no way for us to solve this puzzle.

So, did Roman supply us with an incorrect version?

 

[Particle_Man]

This was definitely unsolvable for us on the boards. The diagram Roman gave us (of which Mark made the nice color version) doesn't fit the solution provided by the DM. The count on the upper left section of circles should have been 29, while the count on the upper area of arrows should have been 30. Then the count of the circle areas would have been 29/19/13 (obviously odd & also prime) & the count on the arrows would have been 30/20/10 (obviously even) with the count on the triangles being 33/21/15 (obviously odd). Then recognizing that the count on the blanks was 25/8/2 could be more obviously matched up to the existing groups.

But the version of the puzzle we saw had counts of the following:
circles - 30/19/13
arrows - 29/20/10
triangles - 33/21/15
blanks - 25/8/2
With no pattern in the counts, there was no way for us to solve this puzzle.

So the question is: Did the DM give the wrong puzzle to the players, or did Roman give the wrong puzzle to the messageboards?

Edit: D'oh! I waited too long and went and did something else first.

 

[Tuzenbach]

So the question is: Did the DM give the wrong puzzle to the players, or did Roman give the wrong puzzle to the messageboards?

Edit: D'oh! I waited too long and went and did something else first.

Seconded!

......oh.....wait a minute........

 

[Tuzenbach]

BTW, FWIW, given the *correct* version as explained by the DM, I now quite like the puzzle.

 

[monboesen]

Hate to tell I told you so !

So cut down on that critisism, you don't (amd can't) know the full story. Who is to say that the players did not miss some obvious clue (in the room or at an earlier time) and the dm (rightfully) decided to let the chips fall as they may.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Hate to tell I told you so !

Actually, I would think you are faily well enjoying it. LOL!

 

[Romnipotent]

So can anyone post the REAL puzzle and the Real solution?

 

[Numion]

Yay .. um

Even with the answer sounds like a stupid riddle. Sorry.

What kind of badguy would ever think of such? If the BBEG had a possibility of coming up with such scheme, why not just make a room where all the PCs die and forget about any riddles?

 

[Slife]

Never had a hate on for him making a difficult puzzle. His real error wasn't in the puzzle, but in the fact that it was the one and only way forward.

Did you read this?

As for the riddle, I made it myself. And, yeah, it was too hard. My mistake. But there were other ways around it in the pile of treasure if they had looked in it. Both clues and magic to pass the door. I was again disappointed when they didn't check. I guess I warned them too much about how hard the temple was and they had given up.

 

[Romnipotent]

What kind of badguy would ever think of such? If the BBEG had a possibility of coming up with such scheme, why not just make a room where all the PCs die and forget about any riddles?

Its a test of character, pardon the choice of words, to test those going up against the BBEG. It weakens them, builds a certain animosity between the protagonists and antagonists.
A lich (for example in this case) would like to only meet those he summons or those worthy of his challenging gauntlet.
If I were at the end of a series of rooms I'd like to know that those that have gotten to me are indeed worthy foes. Remember, at the end of the puzzles, rooms and monsters that the PC's are using up resources and will reach you rather tired.
To quote from Once Upon a Time in Mexico:
"The bull is stabbed, prodded, beaten. The bull is wounded. The bull is tired, before the matador ever steps into the ring. Now, is that victory? Of course it is."
and then on he goes about creative sportsmanship and rigging the odds.

Truely gruesome dungeons like the one from this campaign are the rinse cycle for the BBEG. They have time to build these places and set up ancient folk lore about themselves so some band of upshot hero wannabes can bust in, crawl tooth and nail to the objective then find out the objective has left or is fully prepared to murderdeathkill them.

BBEG's also sometimes want the only way in to be difficult. Imagine you're a cultist of said BBEG, you've got a pendant, training in the solutions, and in withstanding interrogation (or a quick death pill). Now, you can get in, through and to your master because you know the way. But those pesky 'Cormyr' people (for example) have to slog it out. Theres many unmitigating factors to creating these things. But the most important thing is that its for escapism from our daily life. If your daily life is solving puzzles and going from room to room fighting extraplanar beasts then maybe you could get a hobby as a checkout chick.
and as for the room that kills everyone, its been done and will continue to be done, Its funny to see players flailing about against certain doom when they failed the search spot and related checks for the giant pit trap of doom with added tobasco.