D&D 4E Ron Edwards on D&D 4e

[EzekielRaiden]

How about the videos though? I particularly liked the discussion in part 2 about RPGs as folk religions. (Which is not to say I agree completely, but it was quite interesting.)

Yeah, gonna have to side with @Charlaquin on this one. Being a religious person myself, hearing video games referred to as "folk religions" is...not exactly welcome.

 

[niklinna]

The brain damage thing reminds me of another essay on the topic I recently read: Abused Gamer Syndrome on The Alexandrian.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I mean, Ron Edwards the Forge guy did say that. I asked if this was the Forge guy because the name sounded familiar but I wasn’t certain and I wanted to confirm that it was who I though it was.

Have you read that thread, or did you just hear about it/skim it? Did you read the last post in that thread? I highly recommend reading the initial four posts, thinking about it, and then reading the last post in that thread. Skip the rest -- it's almost all noise.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Ah, yes, quite correct.

Again, I’d be more inclined to chalk it up to poor choice of language if he hadn’t responded by doubling down and reiterating that he meant exactly what he said. And, frankly, even under the most charitable interpretation, it was still a terrible take.

Ah, you clearly missed the last post in the thread, then. You should look to it.

 

[Malmuria]

He also compares playing a trad game to child abuse...

But obviously he/the forge has been very influential for game design. From what I've read of Forge rpg stuff, it strikes me as overly proscriptive and tries too hard to define every conceivable aspect of gameplay experience and interrelate them into a unified theory. Still, I guess it's impressive that you could tweet "system matters" in 2021 and it would still cause a massive ttrpg discourse controversy and lead to accusations of gatekeeping

 

[darjr]

The brain damage thing reminds me of another essay on the topic I recently read: Abused Gamer Syndrome on The Alexandrian.

Yup. It was this very thing that I see in many public games. I’ve had players romp all over an adventure and it’s about all I can do just to keep up, and I’ve had players that I’ve had to narrate too. I o think Ron was way off base but there is something to it. I’ve seen it.

 

[Charlaquin]

Have you read that thread, or did you just hear about it/skim it? Did you read the last post in that thread? I highly recommend reading the initial four posts, thinking about it, and then reading the last post in that thread. Skip the rest -- it's almost all noise.

Ah, you clearly missed the last post in the thread, then. You should look to it.

I haven’t read the whole thread, but I have read his posts in it.

 

[Ovinomancer]

The brain damage thing reminds me of another essay on the topic I recently read: Abused Gamer Syndrome on The Alexandrian.

This is pretty much exactly what Ron was saying, just less provocatively phrased and absent the narrativism angle. Definitely a much better intro to the concept.

 

[darjr]

Eh, I’m not so sure about the Forges influence. I think it’s more that some folks who have influenced game design hung out there. It may be a subtle difference but I think it’s an important one.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I haven’t read the whole thread, but I have read his posts in it.

The last one? What did you think of it? Where he admitted he likely screwed up, apologized for causing harm to others, promised to think upon it, and shut down the discussion?