D&D 4E Ron Edwards on D&D 4e

[pemerton]

They definitely scratch different itches, but I think I prefer 4e as a player.

Is that because it gives you more "autonomy" - or if you prefer "protagonism"? (I'm not sure either is a perfect word, and I don't want to start any more bushfires, but hopefully you get what I'm asking.)

 

[S'mon]

Is that because it gives you more "autonomy" - or if you prefer "protagonism"? (I'm not sure either is a perfect word, and I don't want to start any more bushfires, but hopefully you get what I'm asking.)

It's a lot more fun playing a 4e Fighter than a 5e Fighter, killing Iron Circle Brigands with my autonomous protagonist.

 

[AtomicPope]

I mean, saying D&D causes brain damage is probably a good reason to dismiss him.

I mean he has a point. Have you ever been around gamers?

 

[cavalier973]

I mean he has a point. Have you ever been around gamers?

You know what else causes brain damage?

Not playing D&D.

So...it’s D&Damned if you do, D&Damned if you don’t. So, D&Do what you like.

 

[Garthanos]

Yes. I think the use of powers in skill challenges is amply covered in the two DMGs.

But consider this:
Because of various mechanical considerations, including but not limited to the role of enhancement bonuses, the maths for combat and the maths for skills don't match up.


Are there solution people have come up with that fall short of full system rebuilds?

I was thinking about this and adjusting the skill system dialing its advancement and divergence to be closer to the combat one would be the most viable. DCs then become direct kin numerically to Defenses.

 

[cavalier973]

I was thinking about this and adjusting the skill system dialing its advancement and divergence to be closer to the combat one would be the most viable. DCs then become direct kin numerically to Defenses.

Maybe a character gets the magic item bonus for any magic weapon or implement in the character’s possession, when using skills.

 

[Garthanos]

Maybe a character gets the magic item bonus for any magic weapon or implement in the character’s possession, when using skills.

inherent bonuses for the win... AND actually having skill related magic items a semi standard.

 

[Helpful NPC Thom]

As a recovering 3e player, Ron isn't entirely wrong. Over a decade later and still sober! But damn if there ain't the temptation to crack open that sweet, sweet rulebook. Just a glimpse of fighter bonus feats. A whiff of Mialee's gargoyle beauty. Just a hint of quadruple skill points at first level.

 

[MwaO]

Yes. I think the use of powers in skill challenges is amply covered in the two DMGs.

But consider this:
Because of various mechanical considerations, including but not limited to the role of enhancement bonuses, the maths for combat and the maths for skills don't match up.

A related phenomenon occurs for NPC/creature skills, which are based on stat+training+half-level bonus, rather than the per-level basis for statting out defences; which means that most NPC/creature skill bonuses trail those of stronger-end PCs.

I mean, that's simply not treating skills in a manner that everyone does by default in combat. If something is meant to be challenging, but a PC can consistently uncork skills at a value 5 higher than expected(i.e. about 8 levels higher), the DM has to adjust the skill challenges to match or those skill challenges won't be interesting.

An example might be Athletics. Normally, it might just be a door needed to be broken through, but what if it was two doors, one right after the other. A hard DC gets you through one door, hard+5 gets you through two. Or go after 'weak defenses' — sure, Arcana might solve 500 different problems, but the Wizard is trained in say Insight and not very good at it, and there's an insight check to be made while the skill challenge separates out the PCs for a little bit.

Etc...

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

As a recovering 3e player, Ron isn't entirely wrong. Over a decade later and still sober! But damn if there ain't the temptation to crack open that sweet, sweet rulebook. Just a glimpse of fighter bonus feats. A whiff of Mialee's gargoyle beauty. Just a hint of quadruple skill points at first level.

8+INIT skill points per level for the Rogue!
But to need something to ween you off... Just look at the the original 3.0 D&D Fighter skill list and skill points per level.
Or look at a CR 15 Dragon stat block and then look at his sorceror level, the PHB's sorcerer class per level description, and the PHB spell list, and imagine preparing the rest of that encounter.