D&D 5E Rope Tricked!

[iserith]

Tight!

One slight quibble, if I may. The party should easily be able to see that Phineas is lying. No roll necessary, I think you would agree. I mean, that's his body... right there... lying... on the ground....
Sorry, that's all I got. Stole that material from another post from someone a few weeks ago...

One of my fellow DMs who reviewed my draft version was like "Man, you telegraphed the heck out of this being a wizard's corpse - it's even got a scholar's pack!"

 

[Guest 6801328]

Nice work!

Would really be a bummer to spoil the whole thing with one little Insight check, huh?

 

[iserith]

Nice work!

Would really be a bummer to spoil the whole thing with one little Insight check, huh?

Thanks - the interesting question is, even if you know Phineas is lying, what are you going to do about it? A successful Insight check won't get you out of this jam!

 

[Guest 6801328]

Thanks - the interesting question is, even if you know Phineas is lying, what are you going to do about it? A successful Insight check won't get you out of this jam!

Yeah, I was thinking more about something I wrote in the other thread, about lie detection being bad for the story, and realized there are many exceptions. Sometimes you want the characters to know they are being lied to, especially when it doesn't change the situation. It only really needs to be kept secret when knowing whether something is the truth or a lie will determine which course of action will be chosen.

And a great narrative device is to let the characters/players know the truth, but make it extremely hard to convince anybody else of it.

 

[ParanoydStyle]

Phineas Lanyard? Oy vey. That's comparable to Coach Feratu.

 

[iserith]

Yeah, I was thinking more about something I wrote in the other thread, about lie detection being bad for the story, and realized there are many exceptions. Sometimes you want the characters to know they are being lied to, especially when it doesn't change the situation. It only really needs to be kept secret when knowing whether something is the truth or a lie will determine which course of action will be chosen.

I think it's risky for the DM to need any particular outcome. I would consider any such scenario to be a flaw in the adventure design.

 

[iserith]

Phineas Lanyard? Oy vey. That's comparable to Coach Feratu.

I don't know who that is, but he sounds like he sucks.

 

[ParanoydStyle]

I don't know who that is, but he sounds like he sucks.

[video=youtube;vfWxORracT8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfWxORracT8[/video] (Last 5 seconds are my favorite.)

 

[Guest 6801328]

I think it's risky for the DM to need any particular outcome. I would consider any such scenario to be a flaw in the adventure design.

I may be choosing my words hastily, but there's a difference between "needing" an outcome and an adventure "needing"...or at least "preferring"...to keep some information unknown.

How much less interesting would your scenario be if the players knew that the rope was a trap? Sure, they still have to navigate Roper vs. Snake Pits, but the mystery is gone. Again, maybe "need" isn't exactly the right word, but knowing the secret would somewhat spoil the fun.

 

[iserith]

I may be choosing my words hastily, but there's a difference between "needing" an outcome and an adventure "needing"...or at least "preferring"...to keep some information unknown.

How much less interesting would your scenario be if the players knew that the rope was a trap? Sure, they still have to navigate Roper vs. Snake Pits, but the mystery is gone. Again, maybe "need" isn't exactly the right word, but knowing the secret would somewhat spoil the fun.

I see what you're saying. I think mystery is a byproduct and not so much a goal. Sometimes you set the stage for it and it happens and other times it doesn't. Sometimes you don't plan for a mystery and the things fall into place to make it so. I don't think it's worth worrying about, and when DMs do worry about it, they run the risk of becoming inconsistent in their adjudication as they push for particular outcomes.