Rotating area bursts to be off-grid

[MarkB]

If you're going to allow this, will you allow him to rotate the cube-shaped effect in 3D? That way, he can flip it up on one corner, so that it only impacts a single square at ground-level - and your area burst is now a 1-square precision strike.

 

[mgbeach]

Given that battle-mat geometry is non-Euclidian...

It gets a little old having to try and roll 2 or higher on a d1 to make a Mobius Trip attack

 

[jkohlhepp]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. This generated more passion from some than I expected. I have now realized that I was misthinking what an area burst 1 really was. I was thinking of it as filling a cube, and therefore rotating it makes perfect sense. However, I realize now that it is really modeling a sphere, but just treats all squares touched by the sphere to be equally affected. Under this model, rotation does not have a meaning.

So I have rethought the houserule, discussed with the player in question, and we are going back to the RaW.

 

[BobTheNob]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. This generated more passion from some than I expected. I have now realized that I was misthinking what an area burst 1 really was. I was thinking of it as filling a cube, and therefore rotating it makes perfect sense. However, I realize now that it is really modeling a sphere, but just treats all squares touched by the sphere to be equally affected. Under this model, rotation does not have a meaning.

So I have rethought the houserule, discussed with the player in question, and we are going back to the RaW.

Now THAT is good DM'ing. Well done

 

[Zaran]

Yeah, alot of us got used to putting the round fireball into the square holes.

Round Circumference = Pi * d

Square Circumference = 4 * d

So square pi = 4

And AOE Circumference = 8 (Burst+0.5)

So Burst 1 Circumference = 8 * (1+0.5) = 12
Burst 3 Circumference = 8 * 3.5 or 28


We could even do 8B+4 where B = the Burst number.

 

[Tony Vargas]

What about when the Medium PCs are fighting a Large monster. Can you have your fireball explode in the air, so that the bottom of its area misses the 1 square lowest to the ground that your allies are occupying?

Yes. Honestly, I see no possible reason why you couldn't. One DM I gamed with only allowed that if 3D had 'been established' by having a flying enemy or occupiable spaces on different levels as part of the terrain. In a 'plain' room, no 3D anything. An odd, but workable, compromise.

If you're riding a horse and you use a close burst 1 attack, do you burst from just one square out of the horse's 4, or do you burst out 1 square from the horse's space?

Like a large creature, you pick one square 'you' (ie you and your mount) occupy as the origin of the close burst.

If the former, do you hit your own horse?

Again, as with a large creature using a close burst, no.

 

[The Little Raven]

Again, as with a large creature using a close burst, no.

By the latest update, if the power targets creatures and not enemies, it will hit your mount.

 

[DracoSuave]

Like a large creature, you pick one square 'you' (ie you and your mount) occupy as the origin of the close burst.

Again, as with a large creature using a close burst, no.

Incorrect.

By the latest update, if the power targets creatures and not enemies, it will hit your mount.

Not quite correct.

I checked both the latest errata and the essentials updates. Neither of them change the following rules:

You occupy the same space as your mount. (p46 DMG, Mount and Rider)

A close burst uses your space as the origin square (p271, Close Attack).

While you are on a mount, you occupy all the squares of that mount, and that entire space is the origin for your close burst powers.

Close bursts normally do not affect you, but if they target 'all creatures' they will affect your mount. By affecting your mount, you become included in the area, so it also effects you. In essence, you AND the mount are affected when normally you would not be.

 

[boolean]

I checked both the latest errata and the essentials updates. Neither of them change the following rules:

Check the May update.

 

[Ryujin]

My guy instinct is to say no, you cannot 'rotate' blasts and bursts in order to increase the number of effected creatures. One of the reasons for the simplified areas of effect is to try and assist in speeding play.

How about this? If the player keeps pushing suggest that he can rotate the area or effect, but cannot effect a creature in a square that is not fully covered by the stated effect. In Shin Okada's 45 degree example this would result in hitting 5 creatures, rather than the usual 9. I think that your player will then prefer the original

*EDIT* If you state that a square must be at least 50% covered by an effect in order for it to hit a target, you then end up with exactly the same 9 squares effected