Rouges sux!

[InVinoVeritas]

Neither of those are G sounds. Roger is pronounced with a J sound, and 'rouge' is pronounced with a sound that English doesn't have a letter for. You might compare it to the J sound, but it's nothing like G. S and Z, and T and D sound more similiar to each other than G does to that sound.

The soft G sound is the J sound. Similarly, the soft C sound is the S sound. The hard G sound is the G sound of "grade," and the hard C sound is the K sound. That's how I learned it in first grade.

English has more sounds than letters, so double duty and swapping happens all the time. It's the effect of having a Low West German language absorb bits of Celtic (Brythonic and Goidelic) before being socked in rapid succession by a North Germanic tongue and a Langue d'oil. Live with it. The language's loose, modular approach to vocabulary has allowed it to become a major world language instead of just something half an island speaks.

The sound G makes in "rouge" I've heard described as the "ZH" sound. It is the sound S makes in the word "treasure." I think ZH was second grade.

Rogue rhymes with vogue. The "gue" construction is vital because the U gives the G its hard G sound, and finishing with a silent E making the vowel sound before the G long and the U silent. It's something English picked up from the invading French. It's used in other words like "plague" and "fugue."

Sure, English is a hot mess, phonetically. I always feel for anyone trying to learn it as a second language. However, the language is still mostly logical.

Oh, and just to help out the its/it's question:

His, Her, Its.

He's, She's, It's.

That's it. It's that simple.

Yeah, the rule I learned in second grade (third?) was that possessive pronouns don't use apostrophes, but I like the above comparison better.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

The soft G sound is the J sound. Similarly, the soft C sound is the S sound. The hard G sound is the G sound of "grade," and the hard C sound is the K sound. That's how I learned it in first grade.

English has more sounds than letters, so double duty and swapping happens all the time. It's the effect of having a Low West German language absorb bits of Celtic (Brythonic and Goidelic) before being socked in rapid succession by a North Germanic tongue and a Langue d'oil. Live with it. The language's loose, modular approach to vocabulary has allowed it to become a major world language instead of just something half an island speaks.

When I went to school, they taught us that G is G and J is J. Sometimes, inexplicably, J is substituted for G such as with 'general' but it is nevertheless a J sound. Same deal with C and S, PH and F and a couple others.

English does have many sounds, but in this case the double-duty letter isn't necessary at all. We have a letter for the J sound and one for the G sound; we don't need to be swapping letters around. That rolling J sound does present a problem, but 'roge' is not objectively pronounced 'rojje' or whatever. Why? Because of words like 'guage.'

 

[InVinoVeritas]

When I went to school, they taught us that G is G and J is J. Sometimes, inexplicably, J is substituted for G such as with 'general' but it is nevertheless a J sound. Same deal with C and S, PH and F and a couple others.

English does have many sounds, but in this case the double-duty letter isn't necessary at all. We have a letter for the J sound and one for the G sound; we don't need to be swapping letters around. That rolling J sound does present a problem, but 'roge' is not objectively pronounced 'rojje' or whatever. Why? Because of words like 'guage.'

Wow, no discussion of hard and soft sounds? Really?

"Gauge" is pronounced "GAJE," so "Roge" would be "ROJE." It doesn't work.

 

[Derulbaskul]

One could argue that it's is the colloquial form of its, if one were so inclined.

I am not so inclined! How dare you suggest that? I am offended and shall duly report your post to a moderator.

You people who fail to take the it's/its situation seriously are only helping to spread the contagion. Remember, all it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing.

Or to put it another way, blargh!

I see your blargh and raise you with a (or an) harrumph. Although it's hard to muster a (or an) harrumph with one's tongue firmly planted in one's cheek.

(Interestingly, the issue of "an" rather than "a" being used before words beginning with "h" supposedly began as a lower-class affectation in the 18th or 19th centuries. In due course, the form became generally accepted... except among those who don't accept it. I love English: for every rule an exception, for every exception another exception and for every exception a rule... and some more exceptions. It really is art rather than science!)

 

[On Puget Sound]

So, Is your name pronounced Tekwilla, or should it be spelled Tekila?

 

[MarkB]

Wow, no discussion of hard and soft sounds? Really?

"Gauge" is pronounced "GAJE," so "Roge" would be "ROJE." It doesn't work.

Likewise "engagement". Two Gs, each followed by a vowel, but the trailing E acts on the second G to soften it, whilst the first remains a hard G.

 

[InVinoVeritas]

Likewise "engagement". Two Gs, each followed by a vowel, but the trailing E acts on the second G to soften it, whilst the first remains a hard G.

E and I soften the leading consonant; A, O, U, and the consonants harden it. As a result, CE sounds like S, and GE sounds like J. "George" vs. "Gorge." You even see the softening effect in the "-tion" suffix.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Wow, no discussion of hard and soft sounds? Really?

"Gauge" is pronounced "GAJE," so "Roge" would be "ROJE." It doesn't work.

Not that I remember. I've learned all my spellings/pronunciations by rote. Maybe my teachers never tried to rationalize letter substitutions with this 'soft consonent' talk, or maybe they did and I just forgt it after I realized that soft G is exactly the same as J and soft C is exactly the same as S. (While we're on the topic, is there a rule about when C sounds like S?)

So, if 'roge' is pronounced 'roje', how's 'roje' pronounced?

 

[roguerouge]

One could argue that it's is the colloquial form of its, if one were so inclined.

What's the point of internet pedantism if one cannot insist that English grammar is immutable and inflexible? That is, I learned in school that the subjunctive must be used in the case of a hypothetical, therefore it is the only proper way!

There will be no sneaky descriptivism in a prescriptivist thread!

Descriptive linguistics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Linguistic prescription - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[InVinoVeritas]

Not that I remember. I've learned all my spellings/pronunciations by rote. Maybe my teachers never tried to rationalize letter substitutions with this 'soft consonent' talk, or maybe they did and I just forgt it after I realized that soft G is exactly the same as J and soft C is exactly the same as S. (While we're on the topic, is there a rule about when C sounds like S?)

So, if 'roge' is pronounced 'roje', how's 'roje' pronounced?

"Roje," of course. The same sound.

As for C, it usually is hard (K). If it's at the end of a word, it's hard.
In CH, of course, it does something different. However, C becomes soft (S) when followed by E, I, or Y: ceiling, perceive, fancy, Cyprus, city. This can even be seen in words where the C is hard at one point in the word, and soft in another point: circle, success, cancer, sconce.

The suffix "-cion" and related ones like "-cial" create the "SHUN" or "SHAL" sound, as it does with "-tion" or "-tial": special, suspicion.

The one exception I can think of to the rule is "Celt," which is usually pronounced KELT, although the basketball team is still the Boston SELTIKS.

Otherwise, the C is soft when followed by E: cerulean, cenobite, celery, century, cede, certainly.
Or followed by I: cite, cinnabar, cilia, cistern, civility.
Or followed by Y: cyan, Cypriot, cyberware, cynosure.