RPG Piracy

[Regdar]

But you agree, then, that this piracy DOES indeed impact the sales of those of us (such as Natural 20 Press, S.T. Cooley Publishing and of course Ambient Inc) who publish electronically?

Regdar actually does not, confer back to the above where Regdar stated they are not guaranteed sales, it's just easier for it to happen to that style of company, and easier to do. It may impact sales more just because of the shear ease to in which it could/can/is done (no books to scan, small file size). Regdar will agree it is more prevalent in Electonic Publishing but not a guaranteed sales loss/stealing food from your table. In Regdar's dealing with PC pirates, they are usually the type who would not have bought the product in the first place.

 

[WizarDru]

The point was that releasing the core books for free DL hasn't hurt their sales. Regardless of any OGL/D20 licenses, the books are there. [/B]

Could you point out the URL where the experience point leveling table is? The flavor text for the appearance of a balor? That detailed discussion of multiclassing using Lidda as an example character? The pictures from the monster manual? The personality descriptions for the races?


Hmmm. You must have a different set of books than I do.

 

[Regdar]

Could you point out the URL where the experience point leveling table is? The flavor text for the appearance of a balor? That detailed discussion of multiclassing using Lidda as an example character? The pictures from the monster manual? The personality descriptions for the races?


Hmmm. You must have a different set of books than I do.

But the only thing you need is the experience table in that situation, the majority of the rules are there and if someone wanted to they can easily get the tables from another d20 book, or go to the store, look at the table, and jot it down. The pictures are available on the net, with WoTC copyrights on the bottom, most from their own website.

 

[MEG Hal]

But the only thing you need is the experience table in that situation, the majority of the rules are there and if someone wanted to they can easily get the tables from another d20 book, or go to the store, look at the table, and jot it down. The pictures are available on the net, with WoTC copyrights on the bottom, most from their own website.

The rules are available not the flavor text, so the books are not available online the "core rules" are and that is due to the OGL which is why we are making products so once again, if it was not for the small publisher this avenue of getting the stripped set of core rules would not be available either.

People can and will justify anything, I hear it every day in my real job, so myabe I am a bit cynical when it comes to the law and honesty. But as people will do what they want, people who want to stop them will do and say what they want as well. And just because you can do it does not make it right...ask Martha Stewart

 

[trancejeremy]

My opinions agree with most other peoples.

The vast majority of the people that use these web sites feel they shouldn't have to spend another dollar on new RPG product, or they themselves bought one book and downloaded it and fell that gives them the right to other such products.

It took years but the music industry is starting to cut down on Napster type sites. For the past 2 years music sales have been down. 5% in2001 and 10% in 2002.

Music sales are down, but that probably is because the music industry released 12,000 fewer music titles (and raised prices on the cds it did release).

Actually, based on the average sales per title released, sales are actually up.

http://www.azoz.com/music/features/0008.html


And pirated RPGs have a major problem that pirated music doesn't - PDFs just plain suck to read. People will always buy a print version of a product, as long as it's readily available and reasonably priced, because it's far more convenient. The trouble is, RPG companies are starting to charge more and more and more for smaller and smaller products. It's driving people to piracy and secondary markets (ie, used stuff).

 

[Roland Delacroix]

But you agree, then, that this piracy DOES indeed impact the sales of those of us (such as Natural 20 Press, S.T. Cooley Publishing and of course Ambient Inc) who publish electronically?

I'm not sure if I agree. I purchased Monte Cooks ITCK online. It was good enough that as soon as I get some cash flow and someone to run the module i'm gonna buy the paperback version as well.

I also know people who DL PDF products for free, stealing them. Not a one of them would have bought the item to begin with anyway.

For me, most of my stuff is either review copies or stuff i can't get no more (1e stuff, etc). I don't have the HD space to keep anything I don't like enought o eventually buy, too much pr0n

EDIT: Ahch, yes, an interesting diversion. My GF is into anime and also frequently DL's movies that are technically illegal. Movies that the 'robbed' coorporation pays fansubbers to put out. They watch how the movie takes and try to get interest in it started before wasting the big bucks on an official DVD production in english.

 

[Roland Delacroix]

And pirated RPGs have a major problem that pirated music doesn't - PDFs just plain suck to read. People will always buy a print version of a product, as long as it's readily available and reasonably priced, because it's far more convenient. The trouble is, RPG companies are starting to charge more and more and more for smaller and smaller products. It's driving people to piracy and secondary markets (ie, used stuff).

I thoroughly agree. From much experience.

 

[Regdar]

The rules are available not the flavor text, so the books are not available online the "core rules" are and that is due to the OGL which is why we are making products so once again, if it was not for the small publisher this avenue of getting the stripped set of core rules would not be available either.

People can and will justify anything, I hear it every day in my real job, so myabe I am a bit cynical when it comes to the law and honesty. But as people will do what they want, people who want to stop them will do and say what they want as well. And just because you can do it does not make it right...ask Martha Stewart

Correct, but the question was concerning the availablility of the rules and impact on WoTC sales. Regdar is by no means justifying anything, or that the out right theft of merchandise is acceptable and good, and that gamers should download everything for free. What Regdar was addressing was the loss of sales argument that is used, which doesn't stand up.

Will it ever stop, no, it's built into the cost of merchandise that a percentage will be stolen, it's the same in retail, where 70% of all theft is workers, not customers and the reason Bill Gates can get away with charging so much for software, the reason it jumped in the 80's.

 

[MEG Hal]

The trouble is, RPG companies are starting to charge more and more and more for smaller and smaller products. It's driving people to piracy and secondary markets (ie, used stuff).

So the reason we will never be able to stop this is because people can't afford the prices of RPG's? So the price of items go up, fairly (IMHO) and now since people can not afford books we (publishers) are driving them to commit crimes? Man maybe Jack Chick is right, D&D is EVIL

I understand where you all are coming from, but a crime is a crime and stealing is stealing and until everyone stops (which is never) we will never stop this activity.

And buying used stuff or on ebay is cool with me, someone bought it from the distributor and you got a great price...have no issues with that.

This thread is interesting because by people poeting why they feel it is OK, it shows that when people justify things as "right" (not legal mind you) you can not stop them--this was to keep it on track.

 

[WizarDru]

Correct, but the question was concerning the availablility of the rules and impact on WoTC sales.

Actually, the contention that Numion made was that the core books were online, and that the OGL and the SRD were the equivalent of the published core rulebooks. They are not. Can you play with what is available? Strictly speaking, no. With a few minor additions, yes.

The point being is that a good chunk of the material is not available except by theft or purchasing a printed copy of the material. Experienced gamers wouldn't need that, but some would. All of which is irrelevant to the point being made.

I understand the justifications that some use for why taking someone else's intellectual property without justification is an acceptable act. I don't necessarily agree with them, but I understand them. What bothers me more is the dishonesty of trying to make it sound like your actually excercising some freedom, and not just gratifying a desire for entertainment.

I was in agreement with Sigil right until the part where he put forth that a creator holding on to his intellectual rights and profiting from them more than once was immoral. I respectfully disagree. I believe that eventually such properties should enter the public domain...but I think the creator has the right to earn as much as possible from his work. I see few greater disincentives than telling an artist or creator that he is only allowed to profit to a point that YOU determine to be sufficient. I know I wouldn't like to be told that I make enough money by someone unrelated to my situation, and I doubt Stephen King or Paul McCartney disagree. Or J.R.R. Tolkien, for that matter.