RPG Writing and Design Needs a Paradigm Shift

SteveC

Doing the best imitation of myself
Ah, so my confusion stems from their using "teleport" to mean both types, then. Got it.

Perhaps the short-range ones might best be given a different blanket term e.g. "blink step" (or "blip", which would surely be the one used in our crew), to differentiate from the traditional long-range Teleport spell.
This wasn't very difficult to work with in practice. The long range effects were entirely rituals that you used outside of combat. That was (in my opinion) a very solid rules concept of 4E. Yes, you can take out of combat effects, but those effects don't keep you from functioning in combat. They're entirely different effects.
 

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Reynard

Legend
This wasn't very difficult to work with in practice. The long range effects were entirely rituals that you used outside of combat. That was (in my opinion) a very solid rules concept of 4E. Yes, you can take out of combat effects, but those effects don't keep you from functioning in combat. They're entirely different effects.
In general, I think character building should involve discrete pools for the main modes of play that expected.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
This wasn't very difficult to work with in practice. The long range effects were entirely rituals that you used outside of combat. That was (in my opinion) a very solid rules concept of 4E. Yes, you can take out of combat effects, but those effects don't keep you from functioning in combat. They're entirely different effects.
Which seems odd from my view, in that my Mages - if of level enough to do so - almost always keep a Teleport memorized as a means to quickly GTFO to a very great distance (i.e. home base!) if things really go south at some point. That seems to be one of the intended uses of Teleport in 1e, given how quick it is to cast in comparison to other spells of its level.
 

Which seems odd from my view, in that my Mages - if of level enough to do so - almost always keep a Teleport memorized as a means to quickly GTFO to a very great distance (i.e. home base!) if things really go south at some point. That seems to be one of the intended uses of Teleport in 1e, given how quick it is to cast in comparison to other spells of its level.
Ah. I don't think the 4e version of teleport was fast casting. But yes it's an excellent bug-out spell if it is. (And scry-and-fry tactics were a little broken in 3.X)
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Ah. I don't think the 4e version of teleport was fast casting. But yes it's an excellent bug-out spell if it is. (And scry-and-fry tactics were a little broken in 3.X)
Agreed about the 3.x piece; the issue there was 3.x took the risk of instant death out of Teleport that had made it a bit of a gamble in 1-2e, which immediately broke the spell.
 

Which seems odd from my view, in that my Mages - if of level enough to do so - almost always keep a Teleport memorized as a means to quickly GTFO to a very great distance (i.e. home base!) if things really go south at some point. That seems to be one of the intended uses of Teleport in 1e, given how quick it is to cast in comparison to other spells of its level.
Yeah, well, 4e encourages a more strategic approach to LR teleportation. You CAN definitely use it to GTFO though, it just requires some way to defend yourselves long enough to cast the ritual. The basic ritual is Linked Portal, which takes 10 minutes to cast and lets you open a portal linked to any teleportation circle who's sigils you know. In this version the ritual is level 8, but it is limited to locations within the world, and there are wards which can block access to a given circle.

Note also that this ritual creates a PORTAL, which remains open for up to 5 rounds. You can peer through before crossing, and others, even your enemies, could jump through while it is open. So it is pretty useful, but NOT generally something you do in the midst of a fight, though note that Ritual Scrolls halve the casting time of a ritual, so you COULD teleport in as little as 5 minutes. High level characters with certain class features or feats may also be able to do it even faster, though surprisingly I wasn't able to identify a way to do that...
 

Agreed about the 3.x piece; the issue there was 3.x took the risk of instant death out of Teleport that had made it a bit of a gamble in 1-2e, which immediately broke the spell.
Yeah, IN GENERAL teleport is safe enough in 4e, there isn't any sort of 'appear in a solid object' kind of thing, although a Teleport Catcher, or maybe something like a malfunctioning circle or something like that might be dangerous. The MotP discusses portals in general and some of those can be less fun than a basic Linked Portal.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Yeah, well, 4e encourages a more strategic approach to LR teleportation. You CAN definitely use it to GTFO though, it just requires some way to defend yourselves long enough to cast the ritual. The basic ritual is Linked Portal, which takes 10 minutes to cast and lets you open a portal linked to any teleportation circle who's sigils you know. In this version the ritual is level 8, but it is limited to locations within the world, and there are wards which can block access to a given circle.

Note also that this ritual creates a PORTAL, which remains open for up to 5 rounds. You can peer through before crossing, and others, even your enemies, could jump through while it is open. So it is pretty useful, but NOT generally something you do in the midst of a fight, though note that Ritual Scrolls halve the casting time of a ritual, so you COULD teleport in as little as 5 minutes. High level characters with certain class features or feats may also be able to do it even faster, though surprisingly I wasn't able to identify a way to do that...
Even 5 minutes, when a combat round is 6 seconds (or some other very short time), is far longer than your front line is likely to hold out.

In any case, it's clearly not the slightly risky get-out-right-now emergency chute that it once was. Pity.
 


pemerton

Legend
The format I posted in post #44 is highly WIP and not really meant for consumption. If I’m going to have to do the work of writing up and laying things out anyway, how should I like to do that? I appreciate the conversations I’ve had with people and the explorations of ideas for helping me work that out.
Just a small comment: your Melee "box" explains the roll as +Proficiency; but your Missile "box" explains it as +Bow or +Firearms, which then causes a "does not compute" error when Smite tells me to use Mage for a Missile attack.
 

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