RPG Writing and Design Needs a Paradigm Shift

[mamba]

All the players have a use for the rules. In most styles of play, on the GM has a use for pre-written scenarios.

I know, that was my point

 

[mamba]

And that remains true for companies that give their rules away for free.

I am not so sure of that. Which one are you thinking of, Paizo? I think for them the subscription model and adventures matter much more than they do for D&D

 

[Reynard]

I am not so sure of that. Which one are you thinking of, Paizo? I think for them the subscription model and adventures matter much more than they do for D&D

Paizo is one. So it EN Publishing with LevelUp. There are SRDs for both the Year Zero Engine and 2d20 and Free League and Modiphius seem to be doing fine. Kobold is going to put out ToV under ORC so it is open.

It is pretty clear that the value of a game for a publisher comes from the total package, not just the list of rules.

 

[kenada]

I totally agree, formats like stat blocks, power blocks, etc. are super useful. 4e really excelled at that. I mean, it isn't necessarily the prettiest thing packed into a book, but in a reference, at the table on cards, and in the online compendium this stuff is GOLD.

4e was a step in the right direction, but it has its issues. Here’s magic missile across several of these games.

4e​

Pathfinder 2e​

Goblin Slayer TRPG​

Of those, I’d probably rank them in order of preference as Goblin Slayer TRPG, 4e, then Pathfinder 2e (pre-remaster) with the caveat I’ve only read Goblin Slayer TRPG and have not had a chance to run or play it, so the inline notation may not work well in practice. I like the way it balances space and visual affordances to group things. I find 4e is a bit too dense and don’t like how it uses color alone to separate the sections of the power block. I find PF2 wordy, probably because of the narrow columns.

Again, as an example, my game relies heavily on this form of presentation Heroes of Myth and Legend has a lot of examples. As I said above, the source code for all this stuff feeds right into online database as well, so it serves double.

I’m planning to target single column A5 for my layout, but I’m no where close to that point. I’d like electronic versions to reflow nicely in an ebook reader, but that will depend on how table heavy they turn out to be.

My WIP drafts and notes use mix of Goblin Slayer TRPG and 4e for actions and actions/specialties/spells/etc. This is Smite, a rank +1 cleric spell. It’s kind of janky because Scrivener doesn’t do tables very well. (There’s also no flavor because I’m still hashing out the details.)

Melee Attack and Missile Attack are actions you can take in combat. Like 4e, I don’t define them specially outside of the standard combat action economy. They’re just a type of action with rules attached.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

HoML doesn't actually have Magic Missile, per se, but here's a version of a fairly familiar sort of feat:

While the format is a bit different from that of 4e, the concept is similar. Frankly I find the 4e MM to be the best, very concise, gives you the mechanics without a lot of excess verbiage to wade through, and there's enough color to get as much out of the 'look and feel' as either of the other two games. I won't claim the way my stuff is laid out is as good, but it is at least in the same spirit.

 

[Zaukrie]

That 4e layout is by far the best. For me anyway

 

[mamba]

Paizo is one. So it EN Publishing with LevelUp. There are SRDs for both the Year Zero Engine and 2d20 and Free League and Modiphius seem to be doing fine. Kobold is going to put out ToV under ORC so it is open.

I agree with EN, they and Paizo are the most open. I believe the YZE and 2d20 SRDs are along the lines of what WotC offers, i.e. a baseline, not the full game (there are several games on top of either engine). I have not looked into them however.

For Kobold we have yet to see what they release under ORC, the full text or an excerpt like WotC.

Either way, yes, Paizo and EN show it can work, I would not expect WotC to do so however and find out how much it affects their sales of books and VTT modules

 

[R_J_K75]

Let me just say: People who are overly critical of your work, and aggressive about it. That's just sad, and kind of despicable.

Unfortunately, in recent years, a small but vocal part of Czech RPG customers has started to demand products that read like manuals, without taking into account the specifics stated above. And they became quite cruel and unforgiving about it. They mock and cyberbully small authors whose works are full of this „unnecessary prose

Yeah its sad and IMO opinion pretty pathetic to be aggressive, mocking and cyberbullying people who are taking their time to release products either to make a living, some extra money or do it for free because they enjoy it and want to contribute to the community. If it's for free then they don't deserve it, especially if they can't or wont create themselves. In @Sparkle_cz case, I'd attempt to distribute it only to the people who appreciate it or are new users and weed out the minority vocal offenders if possible. There's no need for you or others in your RPG community to make any effort to appease these people by changing your creations.

 

[Sparkle_cz]

In @Sparkle_cz case, I'd attempt to distribute it only to the people who appreciate it or are new users and weed out the minority vocal offenders if possible. There's no need for you or others in your RPG community to make any effort to appease these people by changing your creations.

Unfortunately the Czech community is very small so when these "unnecessary-prose-loving" writers want to engage with the community and have exposure for their work, they have to share the same social platforms as the edgelords who give them hell.

There is one particularly toxic person who is on basically EVERY czech RPG social media and gatekeeps and gatekeeps and no one bans him because he is smart enough to wrap his gatekeeping into polite sentences where he basically gaslights the author using these arguments:

• you are harming the community by creating a suboptimal work because you deform the good taste of the readers and give them wrong assumptions about what is and what is not good design
• you detract newbies who start with your product and because of its flaws they give up on RPGs and then they think badly of the industry as a whole.
• even if your product is for free, you still wasted the customer's time and that is unacceptable.

Yes, this mindset is sick but it's unfortunately happening.

After I finish my latest RPG book (hopefully this year) I plan to engage more into this matter, I will try to help create safe spaces for small Czech authors. Let's hope it helps at least a bit.

 

[R_J_K75]

Unfortunately the Czech community is very small so when these "unnecessary-prose-loving" writers want to engage with the community and have exposure for their work, they have to share the same social platforms as the edgelords who give them hell.

There is one particularly toxic person who is on basically EVERY czech RPG social media and gatekeeps and gatekeeps and no one bans him because he is smart enough to wrap his gatekeeping into polite sentences where he basically gaslights the author using these arguments:

• you are harming the community by creating a suboptimal work because you deform the good taste of the readers and give them wrong assumptions about what is and what is not good design
• you detract newbies who start with your product and because of its flaws they give up on RPGs and then they think badly of the industry as a whole.
• even if your product is for free, you still wasted the customer's time and that is unacceptable.

Yes, this mindset is sick but it's unfortunately happening.

After I finish my latest RPG book (hopefully this year) I plan to engage more into this matter, I will try to help create safe spaces for small Czech authors. Let's hope it helps at least a bit.

Sorry to hear that, hope you can find a way to work things out for the greater good of your RPG community.