RPGNow and the competition . . .

[D_Sinclair]

Oh?

I'm pretty sure I was the primary one responsible for that. Even if you don't beleive I was the only one, I think you're a bit remiss to omit my part by saying you were the "only one", Dana.

Hmmm...

Check page 9 of the thread titled "DriveThruRPG Exclusivity".

You didn't explain anything of the sort. You quoted Mr. Jorgensen's post on the subject. Admittedly, your regurgitation of a prior post did lead to DTRPG actually noticing the information and testing who was right, that testing likely would never have occurred without the original post. If at some point prior to that you did explain how DRM works, by all means, feel free to show me where I went wrong. As I said, he was the only one who detailed how DRM works. I didn't say anything about anyone bringing it to DTRPG's attention.

BTW, is my sig not appearing to you? While I have the same first initial, I certainly don't have the same girlie first name as my boss. How the man could decide not to change his first name when he reached 18 is beyond me. Anyway, since my sig must be messed up, the name is David Sinclair.

 

[Cergorach]

I'd like to say... check the press releases. I just got hired. After long being accused of being a representative of ARP after posting glowing reviews of Big Bang over on rpg.net, I actually am now exactly what people used to accuse of me.

Reminds me of a story, the emperor's invicible clothes...

 

[D_Sinclair]

And you felt obligated to point that out... why? I should think that would be to his credit, rather than a point of contention.

Well, since they like to call DTRPG the first professional site for publishers, or whatever their "we're pros" catch phrase currently is, I feel it is far more professional to admit one's part in those all too numerous mistakes, rather than trying to take a cue from big business and trying to sweep it under the rug.

 

[rpghost]

My god. This thead went from a good point, to some mud slinging and more misinformation, to now a flame war. Take it somewhere else please.

James

 

[Cergorach]

My god. This thead went from a good point, to some mud slinging and more misinformation, to now a flame war. Take it somewhere else please.

James

Ah, the voice of reason. Will do.

 

[Psion]

BTW, is my sig not appearing to you?

You are affliliate with him and have a very similar posting style. I have no proof, but I have reason to doubt.

If at some point prior to that you did explain how DRM works, by all means, feel free to show me where I went wrong.

I'm not interested wasting my time dredging up posts. All I know is that I
1) cited (and re-cited) the 6 computer limit BEFORE that post, and
2) am the one who kept bringing it to DTRPGs attention without being so vitrolic that they tuned him out like "your boss".

As I said, he was the only one who detailed how DRM works.

Not what I was referring to. What I was referring to was:

That in turn lead to an individual page on the DTRPG site regarding the subject, which seems to have since been summarized and added to their general FAQ page.

Which I do beleive was a direct result of a reply of mine to Steve Wieck insisting that he check when he insisted there was no 6 computer limit. Only after my reply on that weekend was the FAQ updated.

I think "your boss" was already banned by that point and was being ignored by both sides of the debate due to his uncontrolable vitriol. I approached Mr. Wieck in a diplomatic fashion.

 

[The Sigil]

Gads. This whole thread is out of hand.

As a consumer, I do not like DRM.

As a publisher, I try to take the stance, "if I was a consumer, what would I appreciate?" and then try to do it. That means as a publisher, I do not like DRM because I don't think my customers do... the whole golden rule thing... if I wouldn't like it done to me, I shouldn't do it to them.

As far as DriveThruRPG goes, well, since they insist upon using DRM, I'm not interested. That's not a slam on them. It's not a slam on Mr. Wieck. I've had a (very) few message exchanges with him and he has been professional. He feels differently than I do about DRM. The reason I won't use DTRPG is I don't agree with the use of DRM, and so we're at an impasse. DRM is a "dealbreaker" for me - as both a consumer (purchasing products from them) and as a vendor (using them to distribute my products), regardless of other considerations.

And that's just part of the glory of business. Everyone has different models and opinions on how things should work. That doesn't mean we can't be nice and civil, even if it does mean we probably won't be collaborating.

The fact that DTRPG charges a higher percentage for their services than RPGNow.com does is an issue for me as well, but it's not a "deal-breaker" issue. I should mention that even if DTRPG didn't use DRM, I see little need at this time to change from exclusive use RPGNow, but in the future might consider it. But I am very appreciative of RPGNow.com and their customer service and the fact that they helped me get off the ground - and call me stupid/sentimental, but that counts for an awful lot in my book, beyond just money... I wouldn't be an e-publisher if not for them; I owe my existence as an e-publisher to them, so my debt to them is a little more than just money.

*shrugs*

At the end of the day, I hope everyone can be a little more civil. The RPG community - especially the publishing community - is too small and incestuous (pardon the term) to act like asses to each other. I don't want to use DTRPG. That doesn't make Steve a bad guy... he may not want to use my products and services, either!

Let's keep that all in mind. It's one thing to discuss the implications of our actions on the industry (I'm not that keen on supporting distributors with a higher commission rate than RPGNow.com, for instance, because I like RPGNow's relatively low rates... and can see how my action of avoiding those who do helps keep my own rates low... call it enlightened self-interest) but to go into personal attacks... not good.

I love RPGs. I hate DRM. I have nothing bad to say about Steve Wieck, except that "I hate the DRM he uses on his products and I'm not thrilled with the rate schedule he uses." Note the distinction - I don't hate him, I don't hate his products. I think that's the healthiest way to approach this. If you must spew vitriol, talk about things you hate and why... but not people.

--The Sigil

 

[BSF]

Boy, this thread plummeted quickly. (Damn, I am just bringing it back from the deat too, aren't I?)

Phil,
As a consumer, I appreciate your stance. I have read the RPGHost thread, and through this one. The only thing I find truly concerning on my buying habits is that DTRPG requires that you sell a product at the same price on their site as you do on any other site.

Not that it affects me since I have plenty of reasons not to by a DTRPG product. But, this does mean that any PDF publisher going the non-exclusive route will undercut their own profits. Again, this doesn't affect me as a customer. I pay the same amount either way right? It does, however, mean that if I didn't know that, I could look at a product on two sites, not see a price difference and go with the one that is most convenient. As a gamer, that concerns me.

It means that there can be inadvertant loss of revenue for the folks putting out PDF's. Loss of revenue can be a loss of incentive to keep putting out cool PDF products. I think that can hurt the market. One of the things I really like about PDF is that the products are less expensive, and I feel like a greater percentage of my spending dollars are making it to the creative talent.

While DTRPG might help grow the market by bringing in larger publishers and, possibly, new customers. Any publisher using DTRPG encourages contracts that bring in less revenue for themselves.

Unless it is demonstrable that DTRPG is bringing in more customers, as opposed to cannibalizing the market, I agree with Phil's assertion that PDF publishers should demonstrate solidarity and not distribute through DTRPG. The moment that DTRPG can demonstrate that their site/marketing can bring in a sales volume that will justify the higher commissions, then re-evaluate that decision.

I support RPGNow. I admit that I have only purchased 61 products (excluding EN World CS account and Personal Forum) so consider my support in that context. Make the decisions that are best for your business, but I would also encourage you to consider what affect your decision might have on the PDF market in general. I'm not going to make any blanket threats of boycotting your products, or anything like that. If it helps you in any way, I shop RPGNow. I do not shop DTRPG and I do not shop White Wolf's non-DRM site. I keep forgetting that Monte has released non-DRM products. Maybe that works to your advantage if you can find something that pops up on my, admittedly fickle, customer screen.

 

[Crothian]

One thing that I find odd but might be interesting to some people is I have yet to recieve a review copy of anything on DTRPG even after making it known to publishers there that I review pdfs of the d20 variety. The publishers at RPGNow though have always made sure I have had plenty to review.

I don't know if it means anything but its just odd that from one site I get nothing and from the other site I get plenty of stuff to review.

 

[HellHound]

From my conversations with Steve, it would appear that the complimentary mailing software isn't coded in yet for DTRPG, but I'm not certain of this.