RPGNow Expanding...
- Thread starter rpghost
- Start date
Steve Conan Trustrum
Explorer
Actually there is a LOT of help out there. There are places like here and RPG.net's freelancer forum. There are emailing lists and yahoogroups. The problem is that a lot of publishers are getting fed up with it because when far too many untested neophyte doesn't get the answer they want they snap at the publishers and act like petulant children.malladin said:
There are plenty of publishers and freelancers that have given me plenty of advice through the years, but I also learned it the hard way: I worked at it. If someone just thinks they can jump into publishing without first working for someone else in the industry (most likely as a freelancer), they have to accept that they are handicapping themselves and it's no one's responsibility but their own to make up for that lacking. And this is a big part of the problem: too many small publishers have absolutely zero experience in the rpg industry before deciding to jump in with both feet. That is like deciding you want to own and run a retail store without having any previous retail or managerial experience.
No, it's proven it in YOUR opinion. This is what I'm talking about: when a publisher states the realities of owning and operating a business, someone such as yourself comes along and says "why are you trying to keep the little guy down?" Not wanting one's business to go out of business is not saying that bottom line is all that matters--it is, however, admitting to the reality that ignoring the value of a dollar soon leaves one without a business.
Not when it's your money on the line.
Accept for one thing: if this was how things worked we wouldn't be having this conversation.
And, again, it's not a matter of owing anyone anything, it's a matter of people taking responsibility for their own business and making the decision from the get-go to do it properly by getting prior experience and undertaking some research. Do you have any idea how many new publishers pop up in publisher forums and emailing lists asking the most rudimentary of questions? The sort of questions they should have definately found the answers to prior to opening a buisness, let alone putting out product? The ease of accessibility that the PDF market allows has created a delusion that simply wouldn't stand in just about any other industry: the idea that it is okay to jump into a business without preparation or a business plan. While I'm happy to offer advice to someone looking to get started, it is not my responsibility to make up for their lack of preparation or forethought, nor should I damage my own company to help such people compensate for their short sightedness.
Not all small publishers are like that mind (hell, I am a small publisher), but enough are that it's created a definate perception as such amongst other publishers and customers alike. In any industry, let alone one as relatively small as the rpg PDF industry, negative customer perception is a matter that simply cannot be ignored, especially when there is truth as to its origins.
And where is anyone saying that? The Edge will not hinder anyone from coming into the industry in any way, but it will certainly make them think twice about how they go about starting their business because now there is a goal to shoot for. I don't think it's the ideal answer, but it sure beats the entirely open door policy that existed before.
Nobody said the split was going to result in perfect product, especially when what people consider to be poor product is usually a matter of subjective taste rather than objective fact.
You're attributing WAY too much to this situaiton. "Rip off artists" will exist in any industry, no matter what. However, what this will do is prevent the guy who copies other people's free downloads and then sells him as his own product from being able to sell next to copmanies that have more to lose from the resulting branding damage. While that doesn't remain an ideal situation for the little guy who still has to sell product next to such people until they get caught, consider this: what does more damage to the industry as a whole, branding damage to a company such as White Wolf or Green Ronin or branding damage caused to Bob's House of Paper Doll Games? Because, if you're serious in your previous statements about the big publishers having to keep an eye out for the industry as a whole then shouldn't those small publishers have the same obligation?
jaerdaph said:
I am:
http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=showcreator&creatorid=3431
(Credits are out of date. There are also .pdf credits I don't claim because I don't like the publisher.)
If I start my own venture, then I'll be happy to use Edge. As an author, my work will probably end up on the main site as well as in a couple of places at DTRPG. But without having either worked for others or a business plan of my own, I wouldn't even give it a go. One is mandatory; both is best.
malladin
Explorer
Steve Conan Trustrum said:Actually there is a LOT of help out there. There are places like here and RPG.net's freelancer forum. There are emailing lists and yahoogroups. The problem is that a lot of publishers are getting fed up with it because when far too many untested neophyte doesn't get the answer they want they snap at the publishers and act like petulant children.
So they should just be sent to their room
There are plenty of publishers and freelancers that have given me plenty of advice through the years, but I also learned it the hard way: I worked at it. If someone just thinks they can jump into publishing without first working for someone else in the industry (most likely as a freelancer), they have to accept that they are handicapping themselves and it's no one's responsibility but their own to make up for that lacking. And this is a big part of the problem: too many small publishers have absolutely zero experience in the rpg industry before deciding to jump in with both feet. That is like deciding you want to own and run a retail store without having any previous retail or managerial experience.
You got a break as a freelancer, a lot of people don't, Thats inability to get work is not necessarily an indication of a lack of talent, so what other options do people have?
When a publisher states the realities of owning and operating a business, someone such as yourself comes along and says "why are you trying to keep the little guy down?" Not wanting one's business to go out of business is not saying that bottom line is all that matters--it is, however, admitting to the reality that ignoring the value of a dollar soon leaves one without a business.
Actually, this is not what I'm saying. I'm saying there should be a balance between commercialism and community and trying, increasingly unsuccessfully, to get some idea where that could be! I'm suffering for Cuban comments I know it
And, again, it's not a matter of owing anyone anything, it's a matter of people taking responsibility for their own business and making the decision from the get-go to do it properly by getting prior experience and undertaking some research. Do you have any idea how many new publishers pop up in publisher forums and emailing lists asking the most rudimentary of questions? The sort of questions they should have definately found the answers to prior to opening a buisness, let alone putting out product? The ease of accessibility that the PDF market allows has created a delusion that simply wouldn't stand in just about any other industry: the idea that it is okay to jump into a business without preparation or a business plan. While I'm happy to offer advice to someone looking to get started, it is not my responsibility to make up for their lack of preparation or forethought, nor should I damage my own company to help such people compensate for their short sightedness.
So, am I right in thinking you view this as a matter of professionalism and see the encouragement of this as the way support and strengthen the industry?
If you're serious in your previous statements about the big publishers having to keep an eye out for the industry as a whole then shouldn't those small publishers have the same obligation?
Yes, but plenty of people have argued on this thread, and you can read it-its not just my opinion, that there are no obligations on the big companies or RPGNow to anyone. If big publishers want to take that opinion what right do they have to expect small publishers to try to take on the kind of professional approach you believe in? If there is an obligation then big companies have more capacity so should lead by examples, not discussed earlier want to get rid of compettition that doesn't really affect them. Chuck this is a classic opportunity to put in that this is exactly what RPGNow is doing
Look forward to your comments Steve.Nigel
Vigilance
Explorer
malladin said:Yes, but plenty of people have argued on this thread, and you can read it-its not just my opinion, that there are no obligations on the big companies or RPGNow to anyone. If big publishers want to take that opinion what right do they have to expect small publishers to try to take on the kind of professional approach you believe in? If there is an obligation then big companies have more capacity so should lead by examples, not discussed earlier want to get rid of compettition that doesn't really affect them. Chuck this is a classic opportunity to put in that this is exactly what RPGNow is doing
Nigel
I was about to do just that, thanks for doing it for me
Let's be honest here- if the bottom line was the only motivating factor there would be no Edge website. Those vendors would simply be dropped from the site's catalogue.
The vendors staying at RPGNow represent the bulk of the site's revenue.
For the vendors on the Edge site, its a chance to compete and flourish in a new environment. This is good for them, and good for James, since it has the potential to grow the bottom tier of his business.
Chuck
