RPGs and mental health issues

[Lwaxy]

Getting together to play an RPG is about much more than just role playing or participating in a hobby...it's participating in a social event at (usually) someone's home.

Also, Olive was talking specifically about people he didn't already know. It sounds to me like a very good rule of thumb to follow. Not just for RPG's, but for inclusion of anyone in a social situation in one's own home.

But that's the thing, he was talking about new people.

People we don't know wouldn't get into our home. We have our cats to think of, among other things. Thus, I'm assuming (and that may be wrong) that it is the same situation with Olive and he'd meet people in a neutral place first. New people I meet in the library, the club house or some restaurant. The first sessions are usually in such locations as well to see if the group works at all. Some groups never make it to anyone's home - we stay in a more or less public place.

I agree that for in home games, you want to be more specific. But I am not sure most groups usually meet in someone's home - I know for most of our players, the families would freak if we'd want to play at their place, no matter if RPGs, boardgames or card games. I'm just lucky that my family plays, so there is rarely an argument about it (asides from the occasional "you want to start another group?" complaint).

I'm guessing at least half of the regular groups do not meet at home - this seems to be especially true in Germany, from what I saw, as the non-playing families either want their peace from it all or the flats/houses are way too small to allow for a group. When we still lived in a flat there was no chance to invite a group in, especially as the walls were thin.

If you don't meet at home, you don't need to be screening your players. You'll get to know them eventually, some won't fit in and will just not come back. And once you do know them well enough you will know who you can invite home.

If you do meet your new players in your home already, then maybe you even need to be more specific than Olive. But I've never started a group that way.

Worth a poll.

 

[Elf Witch]

I have to admit that when I read the list I kind of felt the way Lwaxy did. It seems rather limited if that is the only criteria that you are using.

But I also understand the reasons for not wanting to play with some people.

I always meet new players in a neutral location usually Barnes and Noble. The first thing is how do they look. A big turn off is if they are grungy and smell. Grooming is a sign of someone who is mentally in a good place.

I chat with them about their game history I can tell a lot from this. It can tell me if we have radical different play styles. I get a feel of how rigid they are. If I ask about a past character and all they tell me is stats and feats and how he was so powerful that is a warning sign.

The reasons I don't think the list is all that great is this. Take the job thing. There are people who like me are disabled and on SSDI. And to me someone working as a night security guard does not say to me that the person has social skills. IBM was down here in my area for years and I knew a lot of the employees they gamed and were in the local SF club let me tell you some of those people had no social skills at all.

The SO. Okay what does that prove I have known to many people in destructive relationships. I have also seen SOs wreak havoc on a gaming group.

Other hobbies. I have a lot of different hobbies but I know some people who only have gaming because that is all they had time for in their busy life. And there is a downside to a person with a lot of hobbies. They are the ones who miss game sessions because of their other hobbies. I had one player who was a great guy and great gamer except during football season. He had season tickets to the Dolphin games so it was tough scheduling gaming around this.

So to me a list like this can really make you not take a chance on someone who is not only a great gamer but a great person as well. As a guideline sure but as hard fast rules no.

 

[nedjer]

So, where do the lines get drawn?

If the exclusion zone starts with employment or having 'a life' to avoid risk, it's surely even more important to screen players for major risks like hepatitis or psychopathy.

But nobody does that, which begs the question - are we talking risk or fear of inconvenience, embarrassment, feeling obliged to make an effort?

 

[El Mahdi]

I think it's more to do with just wanting to have fun, and avoiding people whose issues would be detrimental to the group having fun.

 

[Janx]

So, where do the lines get drawn?

If the exclusion zone starts with employment or having 'a life' to avoid risk, it's surely even more important to screen players for major risks like hepatitis or psychopathy.

But nobody does that, which begs the question - are we talking risk or fear of inconvenience, embarrassment, feeling obliged to make an effort?

most people aren't professional profilers or software developers to clearly and concisely define their filters that eliminate the chaff from the wheat.

The point of any of these filters isn't to be mean and filter out perfectly nice people like [MENTION=9037]Elf Witch[/MENTION].

It's to have criteria to advise you on the kind of people who tend to be a greater risk. Not a strict checklist.

How the heck would hepatitis be a risk? You're rolling dice together, not swapping spit or sharing needles.

Psychopathy isn't easily detected by people, I suppose you could eliminate people who don't like animals or music, which I find to be one sign of "not right" people.


In the end though, they're just rules of thumb. Will you miss out on gaming with someone who could be your most perfect friend? Sure.

But there's six billion people on the planet, you can afford to be choosy.

 

[El Mahdi]

If you don't meet at home, you don't need to be screening your players...

I'd very much disagree with that. There may not be the aspects that come with having people in one's home, but there are still the aspects of wanting to have an enjoyable experience. Part of that experience is the socialization with other people. But having a jerk in the mix can easily destroy that aspect. We all do still screen the people we play with. Even you do. You said you'd meet people in a neutral location before inviting them to your home. That's screening. You may not agree with Olive's criteria, but we all discriminately evaluate who we game with to one extent or another. And I find nothing in Olive's criteria that are unduly discriminatory or insensitive to those with disabilities.

Now do I feel that excluding people because they might have mental health issues is okay? In general: No. I wouldn't exclude somebody from a game of mine spcifically because I know of a mental health issue they have. However, I will exclude them if they are unable to participate politely and socially in a game session. I find anti-social personalities or problems to be something wouldn't be willing to deal with at my games. I'm playing to have fun, not provide someone a therapy session. But I'm not excluding them because of their issue, I'm excluding them because of their behavior.

I posted earlier that I hadn't really ever gamed with anyone with mental health issues. The general theme of the thread at the time, seemed to be talking about extreme issues: Alcohol/drug addiction, anti-social personalities, etc., so I said I've never had to deal with such issues nor known any gamers who had these issues. However, my wife has ADD and plays in our games. My cousin has OCD, and also plays in our games. And I can't imagine either one of those being problems even if they weren't family and I hadn't previously known them. Hell, when it comes right down to it, we all have issues. What the hell is "normal" anyways... So I really don't consider stuff like that an issue. But, I also have no right to say what's right for each and every individual gamer at their kitchen table. If someone wants to exclude someone from their home because of ADD, OCD, or anything else, they have that right. You and I might think it's jerky, but we have no right to tell them they can't. However, more than likely I wouldn't game at that persons house either, as I don't want to game with jerks.

As to where most people game: I'd say it's probably a given that most games occur within someone's "home". Sure, there are games at hobby stores, and sometimes even in public places, but I'm betting that kitchen tables and living rooms probably far outweigh all other settings. In this context I also consider one's dorm room their "home". Most games I've played in have been somebody's home, with the exception of when I lived in a dorm myself. Most gaming I did then was usually in a common area like a day room or such, but only because all of us involved in the game also lived in a dorm...though sometimes we did cram everybody into someones room and gamed.

But I think those would be some interesting questions for a poll(s).

 

[Sword of Spirit]

An interesting discussion.

I almost always play with friends. I make new friends through gaming, too, but we generally meet through at least a "friend of a friend" type of situation before they're allowed into a game.

This means that my criteria is the same criteria I use to choose my friends.

I think one might have to use slightly different criteria if they are creating a group without that sort of background. In that case, I think an "interview" is probably a good risk-analysis.

In my group of gamer friends, most have no current, noticeable, mental health or substance abuse issues. One of my dearest friends (like a sister to me), had a breakdown a few years back, and has suffered pretty severe anxiety and depression since then. Her husband (also my really good friend), is currently our GM. Since they host our games, it's easier for her to participate, but sometimes she just isn't feeling up to it, and everyone knows to be extra sensitive to her current needs. When I run my games, I wouldn't dream of not having them both be a part of them.

As for myself, I suffer from a depressive disorder, a certain amount of anxiety, and perhaps a very mild case of OCD (or just perfectionism). None of these would be noticed by casual friends, or even gaming friends (with the possible exception of a perfectionistic need to control certain aspects of pre-game campaign design when I'm a GM ). I'm also probably the most reliable "on the ball" player in this group of mostly healthy individuals. I generally get the work done on new characters before anyone else, and often try to help others get their work done. In a group of heavy role-players, I'm one of the most amenable to choosing a character concept that fits well with the GM's campaign ideas (I have a lot of character concepts I can enjoy getting into). I ease the GM's burden during the game by looking up rules he's forgotten or is fuzzy on (without trying to pull "rules lawyer" on him). As far as I know, I've been considered a valuable contribution to any of the games I've been a player in (with this group and others).

Would I necessarily pass an interview from a stranger on some of the criteria that have been suggested? Probably not, unless references are involved. Would I understand not being accepted into a game based on said interview? Absolutely. Would I be very careful about who I invited into my home for a game? You bet. When it comes to issues on who you are going to bring into a game, there are a important considerations, and how you get your players is a major consideration in risk-analysis and player management.

 

[Elf Witch]

I have already admitted to some mental health issues. And yes they can effect my life and gaming sometimes. If I get a serious downswing I stop functioning well. So as a player I can still manage but as a DM I can't. The prep work overwhelms me.

I am honest with my players about this and they accept it. It does not happen all that often but I did stop DMing for six months back in 2008 because of a medication change that just screwed up my bi polar.

This also accept my physical limitations I suffered major brain damage and have aphasia. Most of the time it is hard to tell but sometimes my brain fritzs and I have trouble with words. For example calling a a bag of popcorn a giraffe or not being able to find the rights words at all. I have learned to laugh at the one and the other I have learned to just stop collect my thoughts. My players are cool about it we usually take a ten minute break and talk about movies, books and other fun stuff.

So because people over look my handicaps I will overlook a lot on other people. But when it becomes detrimental to the game then I say that is it. We had to ask a good friend someone we have known for thirty years to leave the gaming group. He has struggled with mental health issues for years and is on disability. But two years ago things came to a head and all he could do was talk about his problems to the point that at gaming it felt like it was turning into nothing but a therapy session for him. So we told him look until you can get this under control you need to take a break from gaming. We all told him look if you need to talk outside o gaming we are there for you.

This may sound selfish of me but one of the reason I enjoy gaming so much is that it takes me out of my issues. I love DMing because I get to be creative and do world building something I love. And I don't want to deal with major issues every week at the table. Right now because my roommate of 33 years is on unemployment it is the only real social activity I get outside of the house. So I don't want to deal with anyone issues at the table.


As I said before there are two types of mentally ill people and I think it is the same with physically disabled people. One type accepts that this how it is and tries to find ways to live with it and be able to function in society. The other type embraces it as long lost lover. They use it an excuse to be selfish and entitled. They expect everyone else to make allowances for them because hey they are mentally ill. And these allowances are over the top like my friend who expected to hold us all in thrall at the table while he talked and talked about his issues.

El Mahdi is right we all have filters which we use to filter out people we may not want to associate with, As I said before ill groomed smelly people is one of mine the other is woman who dress like skanks. Show up to the meet and greet and your g string is visible and your boobs are falling out of your shirt. I am going to say no. The reason for this is that every gamer girl I ever met who dressed like that has been a disaster at the table. They are into hey look at me drama and tend to be spot light whores. They also like to play games with the male players heads. So yeah my discriminating like this I may miss a great gamer who could have turned out to be a good friend but we tend to filter based on past experiences.

 

[Lwaxy]

I'd very much disagree with that. There may not be the aspects that come with having people in one's home, but there are still the aspects of wanting to have an enjoyable experience. Part of that experience is the socialization with other people. But having a jerk in the mix can easily destroy that aspect. We all do still screen the people we play with. Even you do. You said you'd meet people in a neutral location before inviting them to your home. That's screening. You may not agree with Olive's criteria, but we all discriminately evaluate who we game with to one extent or another. And I find nothing in Olive's criteria that are unduly discriminatory or insensitive to those with disabilities.

Now do I feel that excluding people because they might have mental health issues is okay? In general: No. I wouldn't exclude somebody from a game of mine spcifically because I know of a mental health issue they have. However, I will exclude them if they are unable to participate politely and socially in a game session. I find anti-social personalities or problems to be something wouldn't be willing to deal with at my games. I'm playing to have fun, not provide someone a therapy session. But I'm not excluding them because of their issue, I'm excluding them because of their behavior.

Of course it's also screening, just that I pay attention only as to how someone functions in the group, which includes basic socializing. I found that several people working in positions where they had to struggle for success tended to push themselves in the front or were talking over everyone else. They usually faded out of the games, especially when they were married, so I'm still suspicious as to why the job or partner criteria matters much.

We did have one autistic/down syndrome player a while back where we didn't even know his full name or anything else but that he was "Jakob who plays Dolomite the fighter." Didn't manage to talk much asides from role playing. He just showed up in the gaming store each Friday night and played - never missed a session. Felt a bit weird at first but the kid was polite, clean and never pushed himself in the spotlight. Would also remember each NPC, every bit of story info and was a walking rules encyclopedia for at least 3 different games. Sadly, the family moved - I got to meet them a week before they moved because the kid got them to help give each GM a present. He played in several groups just like he did in ours. I guess if not that there were games in the store who accepted him, he would never had a go at gaming. I still miss him because every time there was a potential group conflict he would just smile and ask everyone to be happy.


So basically, I screen for cleanliness, ability to deal and work with a group and the possibility to make it to the gaming sessions (like our busy banker could only make a monthly game so couldn't get into weekly campaigns). Like Elf Witch, I would draw the line when a player has issues that keep spilling over to the gaming table, including being too depressed to function or needing too much help in a group that is otherwise independent.

Oh yeah, and no one is supposed to show up drunk or on any other drugs. I think one player might be a recovering alcoholic because she chose to play in a "no alcohol on table" group (some kids under 16) instead of a group that would, time wise, be more comfortable for her but has players all over 20. I never asked and I don't think I should. It feels like intruding. On the other hand, we could just make the other group alcohol free if we'd know.

Like Elf Witch, there are times when, thanks to my own handicaps, I'm not quite up to GMing, but we have several GMs and more than one campaign going so we can easily switch. There is just one group I force myself to go to when I'm not really sick, and that's the group of kids/teenagers which really needs the activity due to their own issues. But that is also a group that can reschedule in a heartbeat as none of them works.

 

[Lwaxy]

This may sound selfish of me but one of the reason I enjoy gaming so much is that it takes me out of my issues.

Not selfish at all. I would handle it the same way, even for the two groups which are, essentially, therapeutic activities for kids/teenagers. It prevents anyone else to have fun, especially the GM, and that would be the death of any group pretty quickly.