RSDancey replies to Goodman article (Forked Thread: Goodman rebuttal)

I have met more returning players in the past 12 months than I had in the prior 5 years. Most of these are old AD&D types looking to get their 12 year old kids into the game. Ancedotal yes, but I really can't understand the doom and gloom comments when I see nothing but fields of poppies.
 

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Kids today (ugh...what a horrible way to start a sentence) in the U.S. have a lot less free time than we did when I was a kid (and I had less than my parents). This is particularly true in terms of large chunks of free time.

This may be dependent on the background of the persons in question.

My parents grew up in a communist country where the kids were subjected to a rigid schedule and tons of homework. They had very little to no free time for much of anything outside of school and political indoctrination.

In contrast, my other relatives who grew up in America had tons of free time when they were kids. School was largely a side issue for them, and homework wasn't punishing in those days.
 


It was either that or Fiendish Codex III: Stuff about 8 people care about. 3e was dead. Once you're into the second iteration of Complete [class] books you know the end isn't far off.

One could argue that:

- "Complete Champion" was essentially a "Complete Divine 2"
- "Complete Mage" was essentially a "Complete Arcane 2"
- "Complete Psionic" was essentially an "Expanded Psionics Handbook 2"


At times I wonder whether "Martial Power 2" and other second iterations of 4E "Power" books, is fitting into a similar pattern ... Albeit this time around, at a greatly accelerated pace.

If every 4E power source ends up with at least two "Power" books each, it will be a sum total of at least fourteen "Power" books by the time 4E fades into the sunset. This may possibly even break 3.5E's record of splatbook proliferation. (From a rough count, there were around fifty 3.5E hardcover books released by WotC, excluding the Forgotten Realms and Eberron splatbooks).
 
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It was either that or Fiendish Codex III: Stuff about 8 people care about. 3e was dead. Once you're into the second iteration of Complete [class] books you know the end isn't far off.

Unless they changed their business model WITHIN 3e.

The could have gone to "setting books" (create a fey realm and populate it and release the complete book of fey...player options, monsters, etc).

They could have focused on a "the way you play" series focused in different avenues of play (beer and pretzles, intrigue/mystery, politics, hack n slash, etc).

They could have released "the refined gamer's guide" which went through all the broken/power creep stuff they did and systematized/carefully errataed what was out there.

They could have released the SORD.

They could have "upped the ante" for books they already have with full size player maps on their site that could be printed and taped together for a full size battlemat.

They could have released a DMG II that was actually useful for the current game rather than expanding the rules for the game (I actually liked the DMGII). Give DMs chunks of rules for ready made npcs, plots, regions, etc. Distill it down and provide it in manageable chunks. (e.g. divide spellcasters into "types" like blaster, buffer, etc and provide spell lists for them at each level.)



What 3e did wrong (and 4e is currently also doing wrong) is that it (they) focus(ed) on broadening the game rather than modularizing and tighteing it up.



I own two large bookcases full of OGL/d20 books. When I select what I want to do for a campaign, I get an idea of what it is and then select the books I want out of my library. I may remember a feat or somesuch and use other books (no rules against it), but, by and large, I select a focus and play to that with a limited number of books. Another campaign, and I'll use an almost entirely different set of books.



WotC's model was (and is) to broaden: MORE races, MORE classes, MORE feats, MORE prestige classes. All that did (besides selling books that eventually dwindled in numbers) was to create greater imbalance/power creep and dilute the game.

I think the "everything is core" decision is a HUGE mistake. The same mistake.


Players don't really need MORE options. Heck, I've seen the thread of "I'll never live long enough to do everything in 4e". That is 1 year into its lifespan. More breadth will not help that person. What players need is for the options they currently have to become more exciting (read: not more powerful, more fun). So, how do you 1. sell books and 2. make things more fun without providing more options?

Power cards are a great example. Character builder is a great example. SORD is too. Make the game easier to play. Give maps, sell tokens, markers, and other ways of keeping track.

Very simply: find the problems and make the problems go away. IMO (a huge fan of 3e) the biggest problem with 3e was the imbalance of a huge number of options, many of which were "broken". Instead of addressing this chief problem, as I've mentioned above, they pumped more books (like complete champion, phbII, etc) into the market and exacerbated the problem, making the game less playable.


There was plenty of room to make 3e better (see Paizo's Pathfinder for an attempt...opinions will vary as to how well it's being done) without making 4e.

All that said, I'm not saying it was bad that they made 4e. But I am saying it wasn't their only option.
 
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There was plenty of room to make 3e better (see Paizo's Pathfinder for an attempt...opinions will vary as to how well it's being done) without making 4e.

If Pathfinder manages to find a way to significantly "clean up" the mess left behind by WotC's neglect of 3.5E in its "final years", I just may actually go back to playing 3.5/Pathfinder. :cool:
 

ggroy,
well, lack of advertizingis partof what killed the Amiga, because, it's said, the execs didn't see the need to advertize it!! Yeesh.

What TSR should do, is something I saw from playing "Battlefield2142"...
put D&D into computer games by non-standard advertizing!

Pay to put D&D stuff in Grand Theft Auto, so when you break into a building there's some guys playing D&D, or you steal gems cut into d20s, or there's a posters on the wall from D&D (the classic Jeff Easely necromancer pic, perhaps) or some such.
Seriously, that is how you get interest now.

oh and MAKE A 4TH ED D&D GAME, and make it good! ;)
 
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This may possibly even break 3.5E's record of splatbook proliferation. (From a rough count, there was around fifty 3.5E hardcover books released by WotC. This is excluding all the Forgotten Realms and Eberron books).

Answering my own post, 26 hardcover 4E books have already been released or announced (up to Martial Power 2, slated for Feb 2010). If one excludes the Forgotten Realms and Eberron books, the total goes down to 22 hardcover 4E books released or announced so far.

The 3.5E era took over four years for WotC to release an accumulated 50 hardcover splatbooks (including the core books, and excluding any FR and Eberron books). In approximately two years since June 2008, around 25 hardcover splatbooks books will have already been released for 4E D&D.

They're already half way there to breaking the 3.5E record! ;)
 


2e did create grognards because it was seen as oversimplifying, and took away options from the core instead of adding them (kind of like the 3.5/4e split).

Perhaps, but I also see 2e as having created grognards partially as the fallout from Gary's departure from TSR, and partially a reaction to bad modules and some of the design decisions in 2e. Also, 2e wasn't a big enough change that some groups saw it necessary.
 

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