[RttToEE]Does anyone ever wonder...

[Zenon]

Yep and if you do not jump on the GMW one trick pony you are dead. Nothing is more lame then a challenge that has litteraly only one way to survive.

What's even more lame is that you are misinformed about this particular encounter.

The demon in question has no SR. Zero, zip, zilch, nada. Good saves, around the 10-15 mark, but that's it.

So it actually turned out to be a nice turn-around encounter for my PC's when they hit it. While usually the fighters rush forward to beat the daylights out of these types of things, it was a nice change of pace for me (the DM) to be able to say:

PC fighter rolls d20
Me:" You hit. Damage?"
PC fighter (massive dwarf with +2 greataxe, high str, weapon spec feats, etc.): "28!"
Me: "Your axe glances off the glistening chitin without leaving a mark."
PC fighter: "Holy Crud!"
PC wizard: "I cast Magic Missile" 5 missiles, rolls damage (9th lvl caster)
Me: "The glowing darts strike, tearing holes in the chitin."
All the PC's cheer!

It really felt the the fight against the balrog in LoTR, with only the wizard able to do some damage. When the sorcerer kicked in too, the demon fled with around 12 HP left (Hey, it's smart. It doesn't want to die).

As for the CRM, it is long. However, the PC's should only have to deal with around 1/2 of it. The module notes state after two temples fall, the rest will be abandoned.

The restocking of forces has to be used sparingly, otherwise it's just frustrating to the PC's.

The module provides plenty of framework to hang some serious role-playing on. Unfortunately, most PC's would rather "lay a smackdown" on a monster or encounter instead of talking to it (or bargaining with it, or running from it).

On the high DC's of the opponents <shrug>, it's a dangerous place. My PC's can crank up some pretty respectable DC themselves. It think the wizard in the group I run for has a DC of 21 or 22 for his 3rd level spells. (School specializations, feats spent, high Int, etc).

The two fighter types in my group have a Fort save of around +15 or so (10th lvl fighter, mid to high Con, protective items). That makes a DC 25 Fort save on a 10 or better.

On the other two encounters mentioned (Elder Earth Elemental and the Dragon), Monte said in one of his posts that he threw them in on purpose to "shake up" the notion of progressive threats. You know, first we face CR1, then 2, then 3...then 8, then OMG! CR what?!?!?.

An added benefit is the "fanboys" (I guess that's the new term of derision, whatever makes you happy) have an entire forum on Monte's board for advice. It's a DM forum full of brainstorming, errata, FAQ's etc on how to make this module the best for your group. Heck, Monte pops in from time to time with tidbits. I've never had so much help available in running a module. Guess that makes me a fanboy.

All in all, RttToEE is what the DM & players together make out of it.

If the players just swing at everything, it's a "hackfest" no matter what the DM tries.

If the DM goes overboard endlessly restocking cleared areas so it seems the players never make any progress, it's boring.

But, if the players and DM "work" together, it really is a blast to run (I can't say about the play side, I'm the DM. But I'd have loved to play in this module myself), and my players show up every two weeks and seem to have fun in it.

 

[Kamard]

I think this module is pretty tough... we've had two party deaths, and that was before the CRM. The ghost in Nulb death attacked the rogue/sorceror, and the blue dragon breathed on....the rogue/sorceror.

Now they are in the Crater Ridge, just busted down the front door and beat up the door guard complex.

I've ran this module for a different subset of my players before, and they did pretty well, going from the lower entrance.

 

[Numion]

Yep and if you do not jump on the GMW one trick pony you are dead. Nothing is more lame then a challenge that has litteraly only one way to survive.

CRM has plenty of loot. PCs can use that loot to buy whatever they like, along the city gp limits in the DMG.

And doc, could you please quote properly..

 

[Roland Delacroix]

Zenon: I have to agree with everything you've said. RttToEE is basically a hack but can be so much more in the hands of the right DM and party. You can't expect Monte to put massive RP into a module already too huge, but he leaves plenty of hooks.

Of course my party hasn't taken up too many of them, but thats ok.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

The only problem I have with the module is the Greyhawk canon gaffes and the number of half's in the module. He used every template he could I think.

 

[el-remmen]

My problem with this module and the people who are talking about "succeeding" in it - is that it is the kind of thing that seems to boil D&D down to nothing but the proper combinations of class/prestige class/magic item/spells to "beat" the game - which takes all fun out of it as far as I am concerned.

Anybody can write a huge hackfest with tough encounters in various combinations with templates slapped on everything - what surprised me the most about RTTTOEE was the attention paid to things like how areas get replenished - how little attempt was made to make the thing actually playable - plus so much damn magic it loses all meaning.

 

[Numion]

how little attempt was made to make the thing actually playable

Hmm.. I found it well designed in such a way that the PCs levelled at right rate, found treasure roughly according to the DMG.

- plus so much damn magic it loses all meaning.

Huh? Several people in this thread have complained that it doesn't have enough magic as treasure (specifically weapons aren't high enough +'ses).

 

[Vocenoctum]

The only problem I have with the module is the Greyhawk canon gaffes and the number of half's in the module. He used every template he could I think.

My problems with it;
1) I don't like the recent overuse of Tharizdun as some Uber Diety, he's become common and lost all use.
2) The overuse of templates and leveling monsters in what looks to me to be some sort of competition to see who can minmax the monsters the best or something.
3) I didn't feel that it used Temple of Elemental Evil very well at all. The Temple featured poorly into the module, and had a feeling of just being tacked on in order to make the title of the module work.
4) it didn't feel set in a world. It was just a large dungeon set in the middle of nowhere to me.

I won't run it as a module, but some of the encounter areas will make good parts to loot for other adventure's.

 

[hong]

Re: Re: Re

I agree the Madness domain is cracked as a Domain for NPC's. The major downside to the domain really only would affect a PC since it hurts your use of skills so much. Skill use is not something the average foe has to worry about.

They're NPCs. They don't have to worry about overshadowing other party members.

 

[hong]

Our party doesn't have time to make magic items. If we take the 2-3 weeks neccessary, we end up using them up fighting through previously cleared out areas that have been reinforced or repopulated.

How do you "use up" a cloak of resistance?