• NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.

Rule-of-Three: 03-27-12

Wasn't it already quoted somewhere that spells might not necessarily scale by level anymore, and if you want a fireball to do more damage you'd have to use higher level slots?
What I'm actually hoping for is for the level of spell slots to scale with character level and the number of spell slots to scale with class level.

So, a 20th-level fighter gets maybe four attacks per round. A 20th-level wizard gets four 9th-level slots and six 8th-level slots (on the assumption that lower-level spell slots have been sacrificed to get more higher-level spell slots). A 10/10 fighter/wizard gets two attacks per round, two 9th-level slots and three 8th-level slots.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

This rule-of-three was a whole lot of "look, we don't really know yet, but what we DO know is that we won't be doing it like 4e!"
 

Darn it, I liked many previous Rule of Threes, but this one is making me nervous again... Why did he have to go imply that they're considering even dropping the "solo" designation for solo monsters. Does changing a perfectly fine name really benefit anything?

Anyways, if they want to create interesting solo monsters, they need to take a look at how they are handled in many videogames. Games like the Monster Hunter series (and its many knock-offs) are all about fighting giant enemies who can single-handedly challenge a whole group, and the way they are handled in those games can offer many lessons to the developers. Similarly for something like the game Resonance of Fate, which has a great "part" system that lets you slowly wear away a powerful foe's strength as you break off its weapons and armor. Or they could just use the classic idea of a solo monster essentially being a whole group of independent sub-units that move together and each have their own HP totals and ability to take actions.

Or maybe they can just change their entire approach to negative conditions and how they affect both PCs and monsters. "Save or suck" is not the only option, after all.

Also, I'm not exactly excited by the game mechanics implied in that conversation about class levels. It sounds too much like 3E for my tastes, and I refuse to agree with praise for the potential of a multiclassing system that is so well known for being completely broken and useless.

I'd like to see the return of lines, but that whole discussion of cones and such just confused me... If you are not even tracking the position of characters to such a precision that you need a grid, then how do you even differentiate cones, blasts, lines, or anything else? Don't those very terms mandate some degree of grid play? I don't get it at all.
 

This rule-of-three was a whole lot of "look, we don't really know yet, but what we DO know is that we won't be doing it like 4e!"
It sure seems like you use this battle cry anytime WotC says anything.

Why did he have to go imply that they're considering even dropping the "solo" designation for solo monsters. Does changing a perfectly fine name really benefit anything?
When he said "it's a safe bet that the kinds of monsters we refer to as 'solo monsters' in 4E have a strong place in the future of the game" I just kind of assumed that there would continue to be solo monsters in the game. I guess you're afraid them not calling them "solo" anymore? I imagine there will be some kind of indication that they can challenge a party single-handedly, especially considering them mentioning instituting some sort of CR system.

Also, I'm not exactly excited by the game mechanics implied in that conversation about class levels. It sounds too much like 3E for my tastes, and I refuse to agree with praise for the potential of a multiclassing system that is so well known for being completely broken and useless.
Whereas I hope they look into things on from all editions that have problems. The multi-classing system of 3.X definitely had issues, but considering the amount of concepts realized with it, I wouldn't call it "useless." Too liberal, yes. It needs to be reigned in. But, I'd like something a little better than "pick the class you're always in" at character creation.

For me, 4e was too restrictive. For me, 3.X was too liberal. I want something in between. I like the way 4e let you scale your powers from the other class without breaking things. Maybe they can find a way to do that after reigning in 3.X's system. We'll see, but I think saying that since it had problems, "I refuse to agree with praise" directed at its potential is very close-minded.

I'd like to see the return of lines, but that whole discussion of cones and such just confused me... If you are not even tracking the position of characters to such a precision that you need a grid, then how do you even differentiate cones, blasts, lines, or anything else? Don't those very terms mandate some degree of grid play? I don't get it at all.
General positioning and battle grids are two different things. There's a lot of mental space between abstract combat ideas like "zones" and the battle grid.

For example, I can describe a group of enemies ahead, about 30 or so feet, crossbows out. There's about a dozen of them, and they're fanned out in a curved line around you. Now, if you decide to use a line, you could probably clip two, but they're fanned out, so you won't hit a lot. A burst would catch more (especially depending on the size of the burst), etc.

You can mentally keep track of vague positioning without using a grid, and make use of cones, blasts, lines, etc. That's how I ran 3.X, and it's how I run my game now. It's definitely compatible with a grid, however. But there is a difference between "compatible with the battle grid" and "designed for the battle grid." Obviously, the latter is better for grids, which is why they said:
WotC said:
However, when we present the rules for using a grid for combat, we're going to want to present ways to convert those spells into the more grid-friendly areas like bursts and blasts.
They aren't abandoning 4e's grid system. They'll have rules for it, from the looks of it. It just won't be the base assumption. See Kynn? The sky isn't falling as fast as you thought. As always, play what you like :)
 

Seems to me that there was a lot of talking in circles going on. I felt they used a lot of words to say nothing.

I guess that since they're still trying to find their way in developing systems that work, there isn't a whole lot that they can say about multiclassing and monsters.

It does appear that the 4e designations for critters is being replaced, though. Lots of hemming and hawing on that question. I kind of like that they are trying to find ways of keeping solitary monsters from being easily taken down by status effects.

The thing about the spells being real cones and lines is good to hear. Maybe in their wisdom they will make fireballs actually work like fireballs again. Deadly voluminous infernos that destroy anything flammable and melts metals with low melting points.

Ah, probably not.
 

Cones have worked for some decades... where is the problem?

I liked the rule of three. I am confident, that multiclassing a la 3e can be fixed. I am sure that 4e hybridization could also work without extra efford, if class abilities are worded carefully.
So I am neutral about that.

Solo monsters shoul not be needed in D&D next, with the flat attack bonus. HP determine if they are solo or minion. Especially if high hp makes you immune to some effects.

Also I like the ability to play gridless, on a square and a hex grid. Makes everyone happy!
 


I suppose I could say, "In my game, it works like this..." in every post.
I do so to give context to my personal experience before commenting on the matter at hand. It's to indicate that it's not all theoretical on my part, and that I've seen it in play (and in fact designed around holes that my players uncovered).

Your comment seems more like it's there just to edition war.
 

Your comment seems more like it's there just to edition war.

How is it "edition warring" to note that their current design philosophy is based on rejecting anything that remotely smells like 4e? That's not edition warring, that's simply recognizing what's going on here.

BTW, the grid isn't from 4e, it's from 3e. 4e's only contribution was the non-Euclidean diagonals thing.
 

How is it "edition warring" to note that their current design philosophy is based on rejecting anything that remotely smells like 4e? That's not edition warring, that's simply recognizing what's going on here.
In what way is it productive? You're not saying "I'd prefer they do this instead of that based on what he says here." No, you're popping in to defend your edition by attacking an edition that isn't even out. Not even just out, but where the mechanics for the base game aren't even defined. Not even where the mechanics for the base aren't even defined, but one which plans on catering to a 4e-style in the article you commented on.

BTW, the grid isn't from 4e, it's from 3e. 4e's only contribution was the non-Euclidean diagonals thing.
I didn't claim that it was from 4e...?

I said "that's how I ran 3.X" when discussing mechanics and how they're compatible with a grid; I mentioned 3.X specifically because it had the grid strongly in mind when it was introduced.
 

Into the Woods

Remove ads

Top