Rules for allied minions?

[the Jester]

I'd mostly handwave it. I'd prolly make a chart first- something to roll on every round for the "Npc section" of the battle. Something like this, where if the pirates have the 'edge' the roll is modified by -2 and if the crew has the 'edge' the roll is modified by +2, with modifiers gained being cumulative as one side or the other gets the momentum of battle on their side:


Roll 2d6 and Consult the Chart Below:
1 or lower- Crew breaks and attempts to surrender
2- Pcs' ship aflame!
3- Pirates gain edge (-2 to rolls on this chart); 1d4 crew defeated and out of the fight
4- 1 pirate recovers and returns to the fight (-1 to rolls on this chart)
5- Damage to pcs' ship
6- Pirates press the attack; 1d4-2 crew defeated and out of the fight (minimum 0); if at least one crew goes down, -1 to rolls on this chart
7- Lull in fighting, modifier to chart reduced by 1
8- Crew presses the attack; 1d4-2 pirates defeated and out of the fight (minimum 0); if at least one pirate goes down, +1 to rolls on this chart
9- Damage to pirate ship
10- 1 crewman recovers and returns to the fight (+1 to rolls on this chart)
11- Crew gains edge (+2 to rolls on this chart); 1d4 pirates defeated and out of the fight
12- Pirate ship aflame!
13 or higher- Pirates break and attempt to flee

I'd probably also include modifiers for the pcs' actions- for every non-minion pirate they fell, they gain a +1 modifier to the rolls on the chart; make a Diplomacy check, medium DC, to gain a +1 modifier on the chart; etc.

Mostly, though, I'd handwave it.

 

[Saeviomagy]

How about the following:

Crew are minions. Normal, every day minions. If they are attacking or being attacked by the PCs or creatures then use the normal rules.

Minion-on-minion action!
Once minions are engaged, they don't usually try anything sneaky: they'll just stand still and wail on each other. If there is a tactical advantage to be gained, the PCs will need to grant shifts or slide their minions about to gain it.

During the first turn of a specific minion type, roll an attack against the toughest opposing minion. If ANY minions of the attacking type have combat advantage over their foes, apply combat advantage. Similarly for any other bonuses (like player abilities and the like).

If the attack is a hit, choose one opposing minion to die. It's suggested that if the PCs are actively aiding a minion, then one of it's foes should die, and otherwise choose whichever minion will have the most impressive death. If nothing stands out, kill one of the weakest minions.

Once all one side of minions are dead, minions will obviously have to engage in combat against PCs or monsters, so they go back to normal rules.

Done - minion vs minion, very little rolling, a crowded and eventful battlefield without much complexity and the PCs efforts can lead to their minions being more effective. Oh, and you don't have the scenario where whichever side wins initiative with their minions will inevitably win the minion vs minion fight. Oh, and you don't have a ship-to-ship combat where every single minion dies before the PCs finish off the opposing captain, and everyone's suddenly adrift in an uncrewed pair of ships.

 

[Shin Okada]

While minions may work, If I were you I still prefer to use a swarm instead of minions. It will make combats much faster. Instead of letting each minions make ranged attacks, give them one at-will area power and call it a volley. It is somewhat like volley rule used in 3.5e Complete Warrior and Heroes of Battle.

Also, it seems that you want to make crews not so easily slain.

Crew who are allied with the PCs are not killed when reduced to 0 hit points. Instead they are knocked unconscious. If tended to within an hour, they regain consciousness after a short rest and return to 1 hit point. If left untended for an hour, they die. Likewise they die if someone goes to the effort of delivering a coup de grace.

If so, making them as one swarm monster, then make them as one companion character (DMG 2) will achieve that goal easily. "Ship Crew" as a whole, has a good amount of HPs and healing surges per day.

As a companion character, they can be a controller as a whole, because they have at-will area attack.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I think I would go with the swarm idea but instead of one swarn I would use a number of them to represent function. Thus; you would have the Quarterdeck crew - this would be the ships officers, and helmsman.
The sailing shift and the boarding party.
The sailing shift would be the crew activly manning the sails and the boarding party would be the spare crew available to board another vessel or to repel an attempt at boarding.
If the sailing or quarter deck crews get bloodied then control over the ship becomes diminished and futher erodes with more losses.
The hit points of the swarms would be proportional to the numbers.

 

[brehobit]

In my current game (only one session so far) they are supposed to be a part of a small military band. So I gave each of the PCs 1 minion. The special rules are pretty much that minions can get up after they drop in a fight as long as they aren't hit after they drop.

PCs are a weak level 3 (no magic items) minions are level 6 ir 7. So they are something of glass cannons. In the one fight so far they were really helpful. All 5 were > than any one PC. But the baddies never took a shot at them due to the way the fight went.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

The PAX celebrity game had an interesting take on player controlled minion also.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I like the chart idea. Mix it in with some counters that represent the crews so you can see what is going on on the map. The PCs can kill off some of the enemy crew and get pluses on the chart. I'd go with a bell curve though, roll 2d6 or 2d10 if you need that many results. That way SOME luck is involved but not so much that the battle starts to become a dice rolling contest. The results can include pushing back the enemy, getting pushed back, a couple casualties on either side, etc.

Morale could be done simply as diplomacy/intimidate/insight checks with plus and minus based on relative tactical success, death of major figures on either side, etc.

That limits the whole thing to a die roll each round basically, with the PCs able to make additional checks if they feel it is advantageous. Narrated suitably this can be pretty dramatic.

 

[Pickles JG]

I have used 2 hit minions, they could be alive - bloodied - unconscious or dead.
These were the crew on a boat the PCs were travelling on in a "Heart of Darkness" scenario. They were mostly there to be rescued from peril or die horrible deaths, not add to the combat power of the party though. As such, since the are so fragile, I do not consider them to add to the strength of the PCs team. In fact if the PCs really do want to keep them alive they weaken it. IIRC I do not think mine did much attacking being busy sailing but even if they did they can be a liability.

Any healing type effect the PCs used on a minion improved its status one step & temp HP etc would give them an extra buffed step. Crits & big damage powers - single target encounter powers for example - could inflict 2 steps of damage.


Swarms seem to be the easiest way to run a lot of NPCs but casualties would seem a bit abstract then. If you do not want to narrate the play of the NPCs then the best way to do it whatever mechanics you use is to let the players run their share of them - on minion/ swarm or pack of minions per PC. If the NPCs are not fighting merely getting in the way then the DM can run them without getting bogged down in playing with himself. I really hate the games where DMs insist on running large numbers of NPCs on both sides & the players get to watch him playing mastubatory D&D.

 

[TheClone]

I wouldn'T apply character rules to a ship-to-ship combat. That will cause a lot of headache and/or strange rules or combats. It will be a tightrope walk between a more simulative approach e.g. each crew member as a minion which will be far too much to handle and a very simple approach like the swarm idea which does no offer a lot of options and combat will rely only on the PCs or you always know after round two who will win.

I strongly suggest using mass combat rules. The PCs as officer of their ship can do special thing, provide certain bonuses or whatever, it's up to you. Or they work their way through the battle as a commando unit to blow up the armory or such. The enemy ship surely will also have some officers which you can detail with more personally. But the average crew member is just a "landlubber" like anyone else.

Someone from my old gaming group did write down some rulesfor ship-to-ship combat, which are simple but should work well. They were written in 3e times, so now powers, but I guess you won't find them in mass combat rules anyway. If you'd like to see them, let me know and I'll have a look.