Rules Heavy v. Rules Light experiment - is it feasible?

[der_kluge]

In thinking about this rules-light versus rules-heavy discussion, I wondered if attempting to recreate Dancey's so-called "test" were feasible. We could do something at Gen Con.

My thought was that we could have two groups, one using say, C&C, and one playing 3rd edition. We'd have comparable pre-gened characters, and maybe a party of 4 for each team. Each group would be ran by a DM/CK familiar with the rules, and we'd need to create a linear dungeon so that we could easily gauge progress. The winner would be the group who gets the furthest into the dungeon.

To be a fair test, we'd want the dungeon to have a variety of challenges - traps, hazardous environments, monsters, maybe some treasure, etc. But it should essentially be a linear hallway with just room after room with different encounters, where different situations could likely arise. Since M&T has been released, we could populate the C&C dungeon with monsters from it, and populate the 3rd edition dungeon with monsters from the MM.


Is this feasible? Do you think it could be accomplished fairly?

 

[BluSponge]

It wouldn't work.

Too many factors involved to count. Rules familiarity, understanding of the scenario, ADD, hyperactivity, over-active bladdar syndrome -- any of these could lead to disfunction in one group or another.

Besides, if you are pitting the two sides against one another, you won't get an accurate assessment from the games.

Better just to let people have fun as they prefer (and be comfortable in the knowledge that despite what they think, you are right! )

Tom

 

[diaglo]

use S1 Tomb of Horrors as the dungeon.

edit: dead is dead in my book

 

[Quasqueton]

If you do it this way, it becomes a competition.

[Note I don't know if C&C has a mechanic for resolving a character jumping.]

PCs come to a 10' pit.

C&C Player: I jump the pit.

C&C DM: OK, you're on the other side.


D&D Player: I jump the pit.

D&D DM: OK, roll a jump check.

D&D Player: <rolls> 15.

D&D DM: OK, you're on the other side.


Without the competition aspect, the C&C DM would probably come up with a mechanic for jumping the pit. The time taken would equal or exceed the D&D time.

Quasqueton

 

[der_kluge]

Would a more feasible experiement to be to create characters?

But see, even I'm not comfortable with that, because I don't consider a lengthy character creation process a flaw of a system. I consider it an asset. Plus, I don't think a lengthy character creation process is necessarily indicative of a rules-heavy system. It certainly doesn't have to be.

I don't think Dancey's approach was very feasible. What was he trying to prove?

So, is there any way to accurately measure whether a system is rules light or rules heavy?

 

[Psion]

Taking up this challenge would require that those running the D&D game buy Ryan's claim about his test wholesale, which I don't.

That doesn't mean I don't think he has some points.

 

[der_kluge]

If you do it this way, it becomes a competition.

[Note I don't know if C&C has a mechanic for resolving a character jumping.]

PCs come to a 10' pit.

C&C Player: I jump the pit.

C&C DM: OK, you're on the other side.

Heh, well, last I checked C&C wasn't a diceless system! The CK would just assign a TN and maybe assign it to dex. So, it would just work out to be an ability score check, basically.

 

[diaglo]

Would a more feasible experiement to be to create characters?

But see, even I'm not comfortable with that, because I don't consider a lengthy character creation process a flaw of a system. I consider it an asset. Plus, I don't think a lengthy character creation process is necessarily indicative of a rules-heavy system. It certainly doesn't have to be.

I don't think Dancey's approach was very feasible. What was he trying to prove?

So, is there any way to accurately measure whether a system is rules light or rules heavy?

what was the system that had a possible death during character creation?

 

[Psion]

But see, even I'm not comfortable with that, because I don't consider a lengthy character creation process a flaw of a system. I consider it an asset.

You almost wrote my reply to your own post.

So, is there any way to accurately measure whether a system is rules light or rules heavy?

Was there some confusion over which of the two was more comparitively rules light or heavy?

 

[Quasqueton]

Would a more feasible experiement to be to create characters?

The rules light system would have minimal upfront info (no jump check modifier, etc.), and relies on the DM to create the information when the situation comes up. The rules heavy system gets the info (jump check modifier, etc.) ready up front so there's minimal delay in game play when the situation comes up.

Quasqueton