Rules in 3.5 that need fixing and what you'd do to fix it.

[Votan]

In addition to those fixes, I'd say the most glaring deficiency in the rules is the absence of a general broad price list that makes any kind of economic sense whatsoever (beyond building a character at 1st level).

This is especially bad with Magic Armor.

+2 Full Plate is Superior to +3 Half Plate (better Dex and armor check penalty, less arcane spell failure chance and the same weight and AC bonus) at half of the price.

Something more sensible might give a reason to wear a variety of armor.

 

[Gort]

I'd like to see the death of "huge things automatically succeed on grapple checks against players". The way I'd do it is to simply remove size-based modifiers to grappling. Huge things already get a big strength bonus, they don't need to get a size bonus as well.

I'd also like to see attribute checks (such as strength checks for breaking down a door) be resolved with a lot less variance. Perhaps a strong door should have a break DC of 8 or so, and the player gets to roll strength modifier+d4 or so.

 

[Gundark]

Make the game easier eh? Well since I mostly DM I'm looking at it with this lense.

#1. Faster NPC/Monster generation. I don't know how to accomplish this that totally satisfies. Iron Heroes Villian Classes are the best fix so far. They need to be a little bit more customizable though.

#2 Faster Combats. Again I know that there are little time management tricks that can be done, but I would like to see something in the rules done. My group is getting into the higher levels and it's getting long to fight something.

#3 Less magic items without messing with game balance. I hate how some items are soooo common. Every bad guy is packing a +1 something. magic items should be special IMHO. My group grinds sooo much of the magic treasure they get.

 

[Ulrik]

I'd like to see the death of "huge things automatically succeed on grapple checks against players". The way I'd do it is to simply remove size-based modifiers to grappling. Huge things already get a big strength bonus, they don't need to get a size bonus as well.

I like it, but I'd suggest they keep the size bonus when resisting opponents. Just to prevent a human to put giants in armlocks with impunity. Base it on the difference in size, so that two giants going at it remain equal.

 

[FireLance]

The more hand waves that the rules do and the more they rely on DM judgement, the harder the DM has to work to get everything to flow and resolve in a satisfactory method. I can save my creative effort for the story and for fleshing out NPCs rather than mechanical difficulty. Too much complexity is bad, if you are forced to cross reference a bunch of tables and then make several dice throws and do some math to figure out what happened. But a good fast elegant resolution system speeds the game amazingly and makes things much easier on the DM.

Agreed, but there is also the issue of how often certain rules come up in the game. For example, my group is very focused on the adventuring aspects of the game instead of crafting items and working at a profession. If it comes up in the game at all, we don't need a detailed description of what it entails, just a simple mechanism to work out the game effects of the skill check. Something along the lines of:
"A single Craft or Profession check represents 8 hours of work and earns the character a number of copper pieces equal to the result of the check. If the character accepts a -10 penalty on his check, he earns the check result in silver pieces instead. If he accepts a -20 penalty on his check, he earns the check result in gold pieces instead."

 

[Gort]

I like it, but I'd suggest they keep the size bonus when resisting opponents. Just to prevent a human to put giants in armlocks with impunity. Base it on the difference in size, so that two giants going at it remain equal.

Oh yes, good point. There really should be a distinction based on whether you're attacking or defending. The fact that the Freedom of Movement spell and ring exist is basically an admission that grappling is severely broken at high levels.

 

[delericho]

Rules that need fixed? I can think of only two: multiclass spellcasters are badly patched, and the level adjustment rules don't really work. Those, plus a 'real' fix for the polymorph spells are the things that I think must be done for a new edition.

Now, if we're talking about rules that I think should be changed, here's my list:

1) A review of the classes needs to be done, to decide what is a base class and what is a prestige class. Ideally, base classes should not have alignment restrictions, should not be too narrow and archetype, and should not be specific to a race or culture. (So, no base class Paladin or Samurai) Additionally, implement the talent trees from d20 Modern, so that there's no longer a need for PrCs that are "an X with a bit more Y" (eg the Shifter is "a Druid with a bit more Wild Shape"). Implement class-based Defense bonuses, and probably Reputation rules.

2) A review of AC bonuses. Split them into two categories - avoidance and absorption. Set up the system so the two trade off against one another - you can get the top AC with either mechanism at the cost of the other, or a good AC in both categories, but not the top top values in both. Avoidance AC should apply to regular AC and touch, while Absorption should apply to normal AC and flat-footed.

3) Remove class and cross-class skills in favour of skill groups (from Iron Heroes). Roll Use Rope into something else. Combine Open Locks and Disable Device. Introduce a Run skill and a Drive skill (covering all vehicles - the Drive/Pilot split is good for d20 Modern, but too narrow for D&D). Add skill-based chase mechanics. Add some more description for some key skill uses. Otherwise, leave skills alone.

4) Many of the things done by PrCs (and, indeed, variant class features and new base classes) should be feats. Give characters more feats. Otherwise, leave feats as they are.

5) Review magic items, with a view to characters having far fewer, more powerful magic items. Instead of wearing four +5 defensive items, have characters wear armour +10 and shield +10, for example.

Alternatively, remove all items that give flat 'always-on' bonuses - no more swords +5, armour +5, cloaks of resistance, belts of giants strength, cloaks of elvenkind, or the like. Roll these into the character's innate abilities, and restrict magic items to instead giving PCs cool abilities they otherwise wouldn't have had. In this case, increase the effect and emphasis on masterwork items, and special item materials.

6) Review applicable conditions, and the levels at which they should be encountered. Monte Cook explained this better on his webpage a while back, but basically things like paralysis should be rare effects below a certain level (where PCs can't deal with it), relatively common at a slightly higher level (where PCs can, but it's a real resource cost), and then rare again after that point (since it's often ignored, or trivial to deal with).

7) Review CRs. I recommend the base assumption that PCs will run to 20th level, and the assignment therefore of CR20 to the most powerful non-unique creatures; then CR21 - CR28 for the unique demon lords, great wyrm dragons, and equivalent; CR28 - CR30 for the least gods, and then CR31+ for more powerful gods. Then, include guidelines in the revised Epic Level handbook for scaling all this up. The new "Deities & Demigods" should most definately be designed to be compatible with the new "Epic Level Handbook" (oh, and it should probably deal only with the Core pantheon, and include lots of information on churches, cults, temples, and the like - see Dragon's "Core Beliefs" articles for guidance.)

8) As noted above, fix the multiclass spellcaster problem. This is probably best done with partial caster-level increases for other classes, as described in Unearthed Arcana, but if a better system can be developed it should be. The Mystic Theurge and the like strike me as far to artificial a cludge for continued use.

9) Fix the LA system. Here, what I recommend is that LAs are simply removed, and instead creatures simple increased in hit dice so that the LA is no longer required. So, for example, instead of being a 1 HD creature with LA +2, the Drow would instead be a 2 or 3 HD creature with all the same abilities, and no LA. Alternately, the 'base Drow' could be constructed without the powers, and the a Paragon class introduced to 'fix' them. However, I think the former system is probably the more concise and better fix.

The scope of the changes I've suggested is way more than I would consider implementing as House Rules, and is in fact beyond the scope of anything other than a new edition.

 

[Gort]

I really like Iron Heroes

Agreed

 

[delericho]

Actually, I'm indifferent to Iron Heroes. There were a number of things I really liked (notably the skill groups and the 'token pools' ideas), but the whole left me rather cold. Some parts were far too complex, and I'm not keen on the 'low magic' aspect.

All in all, it struck me as a design with a lot to admire in it, but not a game I would actually want to run.

I do like that D&D characters have an arsenal of magical abilities and magic items to call on - I just feel that some of the specifics need adjusted.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

For the sake of making the game easier what do you think needs to be fixed? Also, to make this unlike all the other threads out there, how would you fix it?

I'll start. Keeping track of class and cross-class skills is a nightmare. I would do away with cross-class skills altogether. To ensure that flavor is kept with the different classes, I would create additional abilities that played off of skills that were integral to that class. I'd also remove untrained skills and say that anyone can try and use any skill with some tweaks to the skills themselves to faciliate this.

I am going to give honest answers to these questions. My answers may sound over-the-top, but it is how I think.

1. I would allow all the prestige classes from all the books, for my players. To make things easier and far more fair, I would have a book of prestige classes with all the PrCs in them. This would include PrCs from Dragon Magazine and other sources. However ... PrCs are often setting specific. PrCs not allowed in a specific setting, I would disallow (for example, kender PrCs would be inappropriate in Dark Sun, no? And Preserver/Defiler PrCs would not be appropriate in Oerth.)
2. I would have a book of feats. I would allow my players to select from all of them, barring setting specific feats only (Southern Caster, for example, seems to be uniquely Faerunian. So no, the peoples of Oerth do not have this feat, nor an equivalent, unless it says so in the books.)
3. I would have a book of standard classes. I would allow my players to select from all of them.
4. I would have a book of spells. It would have all the spells from all the books. I would allow my players full access, barring other rules (such as the need for wizards to find spells, clerical domains, limits on spells/day for sorcerers, and so on.)

- I like the Gestalt idea, but I would greatly enhance it. I would just allow that Gestalt characters could take two classes for the price of one, and ALL the powers and abilities and bonuses of each would STACK. That keeps it simple, if powerful. Gestalt characters could multiclass normally, and thus have four classes for the price of two. All abilities, powers, and bonuses would stack, but ... the character would advance only twice as fast. Penalties for not balancing classes (unless a Favored Class is in play) would be in effect.
- I would return to the Druid all her shapeshifting powers as she had them in 3.0. Yes, that strengthens the Druid. And yes, I think the Druid deserves it.
- I would keep Polymorph as it is. It is a mess, but a nice mess.
- I would return many spells to their 3.0 versions. In the case of Haste, I would cause it to allow an extra Standard Action (spellcasting included.) In the case of Heal and Harm, back to their original versions (people should be afraid of clerics!)
- I would bring back the illusion spells of the Spectral Force kind, with all the trappings. I would use the advanced 2nd edition rules concerning what could be created, how powerful it could be, and how belief could render someone comatose.
- I would bring most 2nd edition spells over unaltered. I would convert 1 round durations to 1 turn durations in 3rd edition, and 1 turn durations into 10 turn durations in 3rd edition.
- I would KEEP the limit now imposed on clerical turnings, for the good reason that if they had unlimited turnings combined with Divine Metamagic, the game would break (remove Divine Metamagic, and clerics could have back their unlimited turnings.)
- I would KEEP all the nifty, nasty, good things given to the fighter and rogue classes. They have earned those things.
- I would keep class and cross-class skills. But I would give at least four times the skill points per level, compared to what is being allowed now. I would increase the limit beyond your level in which you could raise a skill from 3 to at least 10 (that is, a 1st level character could have a skill of 11 in something, not including bonuses.)
- I would allow the drawbacks from Unearthed Arcana as standard rules, granting extra feats.
- I would change the rules to allow 3 or more starting feats, plus at LEAST 3 to 5 additional starting feats if you're human (after all, human PCs should be encouraged.) Then, I would allow 1 feat per level after that, not including fighter feats, metamagic feats, and other feats allowed.
- I would not require minatures as a part of the rules. They make a nice optional rule, but I would not make them mandatory.
- I would create more weapons that could be used both for Power Attack and for (what was it?) Nimble Attacks. Right now, only the spiked chain and rapier seem to do both.
- I think the spiked chain is a great weapon. Fine. OTHER peoples would create equally nice weapons too. And these would be available.
- I would allow all spellcasting classes about 5 times their current spell allowance, not including bonuses (and I'd scale those up exponentially with stats, not linearly.)
- I would REQUIRE worn or carried items subject to attack, to make saving throws. Yes, this might be disastrous for PCs. But if they insist on fighting and adventuring, disasters happen. I would make ANY magical weapons MUCH harder to destroy (one does not simply fireball and melt Glamdring!)
- I would make many minor artifacts (such as the 3rd edition version of a Girdle of Giant Strength) back into regular magical items. Artifacts are ARTIFACTS. A Girdle of Giant Strength is nice, but it is NOT the Hand of Vecna (you had better hope!) Artifacts do things like destroy your soul with no saving throw or spell resistance allowed. Artifacts, are rare and wonderful and awful things, and finding one is the driving force of an entire campaign.

Note what the effect would be:

Low level characters would become quite strong. A first level character would have many more options, many more choices and chances. A third level character, much less a fifth level character, would be quite a capable person.
There would be no need to struggle for high levels to make the game interesting, when you have choices and chances and interesting stuff at low level. And when you finally do get to high level (7th level or higher) the benefits are worth the trouble (such as the Druid's Shapechanging, which obviously is quite powerful. Or any 4th level spell. Or the rogue's sneak attack, multiplied by feats.)

Now, concerning really high levels, consider the Initiate of the Seven Veils. She can attack through her own personal and mobile Prismatic Sphere at 17th level, while opponents must - in order to strike her - suffer the effects of that Sphere.
Meanwhile, the Frenzied Berserker (starting at around, what, 8th level?) can shrug off death while she is frenzied, and shrug it away completely if healed before the frenzy ends.
The cleric can cast Harm at, what, 10th level? In the original version of that spell, it strips the enemy (no save) down to almost nothing.
The bladesinger can fight and cast spells simultaneously. The FR version of this class can cast any spell, once per round, indefinitely, while fighting with weapons.
These are not small powers. They are the powers of mighty characters best not meddled with. If PCs have these powers, then they should face appropriate enemies ... the campaign involves epic battles and monumental challenges. That is why we have things like the Tomb of Horrors, Castle Greyhawk, the Temple of Elemental Evil, and other nice places like that.

I know the game goes above 20th level. But why rush to 20th level, when you can do so many neat things at 3rd level? And a lower powered game is easier on the DM, who must think up all those impossibly powerful monsters to be faced.
But if a character INSISTS on pushing beyond 20th level (40th, if we are talking the modified Gestalt I mentioned above), then Pandora's Box is open, and the PC should realize that. Is the character ready to face Acererak? How about Larloch? Rary? Fistandantilus? Dalamar? The Dragon (Dark Sun) ? How about those nifty ideas Upper Krust has given us?
In that case, the enemy is going to be powerful, prepared, and smart. No just walking up to that foe and fighting him or her! (unless the PC WANTS to be eaten by a tarrasque protected by Lifeproof or something even worse.) No, taking on an epic enemy requires a whole campaign, and the situation is as byzantine and difficult as anything faced in the novel Dune.
I saw that epic spell that duplicates you for a few hours (DC 70?) Well, if an epic mage can do it, an epic dragon can do it! An epic monster can figure out how to do it. Even an epic fighter or rogue can probably figure out the secret. Then add in stasis clones, and the Manshoon Disaster. A determined enemy could duplicate that mess. Add in simulacrum, illusions, polymorphs, and just outright subterfuge and disguise.
Is that Acererak? Is that the only Acererak? Is there an Acererak in reserve? Is this a fake? Is it an illusion? A polymorph? A disguised rogue or fighter? A fighter immune to death by damage, appearing as Acererak? A bard deluding you with her song?
And, real or not, is this 'Acererak' about to fry you with some no-save spell? A spell that seems like such a spell? A trap? A host of monsters ready to appear? Magical items about to blast you to smithereens? Epic poisons? An artifact, perhaps, ready to discharge?
Well, you wanted an epic PC to face epic challenges! Enjoy yourself!
Mess around with power, face the consequences. If you can't handle that, go back to town and have a drink at the bar!

Edena_of_Neith