Rules of the game (SLA part 2)

[James McMurray]

If that's what it says, its crap. SLA's don't provoke AoO's because you recognize what's happening, they provoke them because concentration is dropped and tht lets a shot possibly get through.

I'd let someone ready against a SLA, but if the SLA doesn't have any visual clues tht its happening, they won't be able to take that readied action. They could also ready for when the creature's gaurd drops, and get their action when an AoO is provoked.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If that's what it says, its crap. SLA's don't provoke AoO's because you recognize what's happening, they provoke them because concentration is dropped and tht lets a shot possibly get through.

In 3E, I'd absolutely agree with you.

In 3.5, with the "You cannot make an AoO against a creature with total concealment" rule, I'm not so sure.

The fact that you have to be able to see someone to take advantage of that dropping of conentration strongly suggests that in 3.5, there is a recognition element to AoOs...

-Hyp.

 

[James McMurray]

No, it means that you can't slip your sword into a hole in someone's defense fi you can't see that hole. It doesn't mean that you can tell that someone used an SLA just because their gaurd dropped. There are many possible reasons for someone's gaurd to drop, and activating an SLA is just one of them.

 

[Hypersmurf]

There are many possible reasons for someone's gaurd to drop, and activating an SLA is just one of them.

Sure, but "the concentration spellcasting requires is unmistakable", so you've got an unmistakable trigger for your Ready.

-Hyp.

 

[mikebr99]

Sure, but "the concentration spellcasting requires is unmistakable", so you've got an unmistakable trigger for your Ready.

-Hyp.

Sure... maybe with some kind of INT or Spellcraft check. Otherwise, zoning out = zoning out. YMMV

Mike

 

[James McMurray]

What mike said. Trying to read anything into a single nonsensical sentence just doesn't make sense to me. The overall sentence violates the rule in the PHB. Additionally, its not even 3.5. If it were 3.5, the PHB would override it. Since it isn't 3.5, it has no bearing on a 3.5 rules discussion.

Also, I checked Tome and Blood and can't find that statement. I figure if we're going to continue to discuss it we should probably have a quote to go by.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Also, I checked Tome and Blood and can't find that statement. I figure if we're going to continue to discuss it we should probably have a quote to go by.

Yeah - I was going from memory, so I'll try to remember to look for it tonight

-Hyp.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Tome and Blood, from memory, reiterated that even a Still, Silent spell provokes an AoO, since "the concentration spellcasting requires is unmistakable".

Disclaimer: Also going from memory here

It actually doesn't have to since neither of the two feats even remotely suggests that using them would make the spell caster not subject to AoOs. So why would anyone think that it would?

 

[mikebr99]

What mike said. Trying to read anything into a single nonsensical sentence just doesn't make sense to me. The overall sentence violates the rule in the PHB. Additionally, its not even 3.5. If it were 3.5, the PHB would override it. Since it isn't 3.5, it has no bearing on a 3.5 rules discussion.

Also, I checked Tome and Blood and can't find that statement. I figure if we're going to continue to discuss it we should probably have a quote to go by.

Here's the quote Guys... its from the closeup on Spellcraft (P19):

The DC for identifying a spell as it is being cast is 15+ the spell level. You scrutinize the spellcaster, listening to the words... observing the caster's gestures, & noting any material components or focus. For each of these elements you cannot discern, the DC increases by +2. eg. if a foe casts a still, silent spell, the DC in increased by +4.
You can use Spellcraft to identify a spell even if the spell has no verbal, somatic, or material component - there's no mistaking the concentration magic requires. However, you still must be able to see or here the spellcaster.

Mike

 

[mikebr99]

I'm thinking a Spellcraft check, DC 0 to notice that the concentration is for an SLA. So, someone with 1 rank, can tell the difference between concentration on a SLA or concentrating on remembering to pick up milk on your way home... But the battle hardened Fighter (without any ranks in Spellcraft) who has readied to smack someone if they cast a spell or invoke an SLA needs at least one of the 3 elements I noted in the T&B quote to recognize the difference. YMMV

thoughts?


Mike