Rules Q: Black Pudding vs. Magical Adamantine

[frankthedm]

And have you seen the elder black pudding?

Daaaaaaamn.

They can get worse than the elder pudding...
[sblock=Ancient Black Pudding; maximum advancement] Size/Type: Gargantuan Ooze
Hit Dice: 30d10 + 330 = 495 HP
Initiative: -4
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), climb 20 ft.
Armor Class: 2 (-4 size, -4 Dex), touch 2, flat-footed 1
Base Attack/Grapple: +22 /+44
Attack: Slam +26 melee (3d6+12 plus 3d6 acid)
Full Attack: Slam +26 melee (3d6+12 plus 3d6 acid)
Space/Reach: 20 ft./20 ft.
Special Attacks: Acid, constrict 2d8+12 plus 2d6 acid, improved grab
Special Qualities: Blindsight 60 ft., split, ooze traits
Saves: Fort +21, Ref +6, Will +5
Abilities: Str 26, Dex 2, Con 32, Int Ø, Wis 1, Cha 1
Skills: Climb +16
Feats: —
Environment: Underground
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 14
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
This incomprehensibly massive pudding likely weights around 100 tons.

Combat A black pudding attacks by grabbing and squeezing their prey.

Acid (Ex): The creature secretes a digestive acid that dissolves organic material and metal quickly, but does not affect stone. Any melee hit or constrict attack deals acid damage, and the opponent’s armor and clothing dissolve and become useless immediately unless they succeed on DC 36 Reflex saves. A metal or wooden weapon that strikes a black pudding also dissolves immediately unless it succeeds on a DC 36 Reflex save. The save DCs are Constitution-based.

The pudding’s acidic touch deals 35 points of damage per round to wooden or metal objects, but the ooze must remain in contact with the object for 1 full round to deal this damage.

Constrict (Ex): A black pudding deals automatic slam and acid damage with a successful grapple check. The opponent’s clothing and armor take a –4 penalty on Reflex saves against the acid.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a black pudding must hit with its slam attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

Split (Ex): Slashing and piercing weapons deal no damage to a black pudding. Instead the creature splits into two identical puddings, each with half of the original’s current hit points (round down). A pudding with 10 hit points or less cannot be further split and dies if reduced to 0 hit points.

Ooze traits:
Mindless: No Intelligence score, and immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
Blind (but have the blindsight special quality), with immunity to gaze attacks, visual effects, illusions, and other attack forms that rely on sight.
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, and stunning.
Not subject to critical hits or flanking.
Oozes eat and breathe, but do not sleep.

Skills: A black pudding has a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on a Climb check, even if rushed or threatened.[/sblock]

 

[frankthedm]

And for those who dislike the Pudding's auto-dissolve your gear should look to Dragon magazine 350 at the Toxic ooze. It is a CR 3, 3 HD, 34 HP medium ooze. The slam is kinda weak, +4 to hit 1d6+2 damage plus the acid...

Being hit by it automaticly deals 1d6 acid damage to victim and his armor, this also happens to those who attack with natural weapons and unarmed attacks. Of couse the acid also affects weapont that hit the ooze.

Against the metal and wood, 5 hardness is ignored by this acid. This acid is sticky as well, failing a dc 17 reflex save results in the acid clinging for 1d4 rounds. Full round action for the victim to scrape the acid off from its body or an object in it's possesion reflex save again, but at +4.

And the creature has toxic fumes that cause one point of con damage to creatures next to it, DC 17 avoids, no secondary damage. The save needs to be remade no more often than one per minute.

 

[starwed]

Now the question: what about magical items? Specifically, adamantine magical items? Acid does not appear to ignore hardness, and adamantine has hardness 20 - so that would be dealing 1 point of acid damage a round. That makes the insta-dissolve seem a little over the top.

Actually, if its a magical and adamantine weapon/armor/shield, it'll do no damage. Each point of enhancement bonus increases the hardness of the item by 2.

 

[KarinsDad]

Well, I am the GM, so it's my job to be evil.

I find the discrepency odd. In a system that seems to move away from all-or-nothing to still have this... well, sucks to be the PCs.

We had a similar thing happen in our campaign.

Our Paladin attacked a Rust Monster (not knowing what it was) with her Ancestoral Relic Adamantine Flail and failed the saving throw (and, her flail had a hardness of 32 due to 20 for Adamantine, 10 for AR special ability, and 2 for magic).

Instead of destroying it outright, I had it seriously damaged and she had to take it to a special shop and leave it there for a while in order to get it fixed.

But, I agree. Monster attacks should not be "save or destroyed" for items, instead it should be "save or take x damage". Disintegrate is no longer save or destroyed, but does a boatload of damage. Some weapons and armor, especially Adamantine ones should have a fair chance of only being damaged, not destroyed if they fail the save.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Items add their hardness to their Fortitude saves. An ancestral relic adamantine flail would be very difficult to affect with a disintegrate. If they added their hardness to Reflex saves as well you wouldn't have to worry nearly as much about monster attacks.

That might be the most economical rules tweak to address the problem.

 

[Xanterith]

100' shaft + pit trap + ginormous black pudding = PC soup

take 10d6 falling damage then make saves for all your equipment plus take acid damage from the pudding which had a ready action to attack whatever fell into it.....

 

[Kmart Kommando]

My g/f's rogue had a corrosive short sword, which she used to attack a black pudding.
Soon after, she had a masterwork short sword to replace it. :\

 

[frankthedm]

My g/f's rogue had a corrosive short sword, which she used to attack a black pudding.
Soon after, she had a masterwork short sword to replace it. :\

A rogue within melee range of a huge creature noticably lacking internal organs might be better off trying something other than stabbing it.

 

[Hellefire]

A few sessions ago I wanted to introduce my PCs to rust monsters. Little things with no hp, but..wow. PCs were camped, 2 on watch, both failed spot and listen checks miserably. Rust monsters went straight for the largest masses of metal = 2 suits of mithral full plate (one at +2, one at +3). Both characters botched their saves. What do you do?

They are heading into some dungeon adventures - I'm thinking about a trap that locks the characters in (through shifting stones) and releases a few dozen rust monsters into the area with them. From different corridors to avoid 1 shot kills with an effective spell. Not that I mind their use, just thinking evil thoughts.

Aaron

 

[Xanterith]

come on you can get meaner than that!

Apply the Corrupted Template from BoVD to the Rust Monsters, advance em a bit. Make a permanent illusion of the floor with a 5 foot deep hole underneath for the back half of the room, than have a black pudding underneath. The room is trapped so that when the party enters the doors close and the Rust Monsters drop from the ceiling.

OR

You could just have the pudding and all the Rust Monsters come pilling into the room at once. Have them drop from the ceiling in one big mess. That should convince them to go back to town and stay at the bar. Imagine a Rust Monster filled Black Pudding. Delicious!