Rules Question - Give your opinion

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

So I was DM'ing my group last night and they are all pretty high level characters now, up to level 23. The question I have for other DM's is how they handle major NPC monsters being knocked prone. In the rules it doesn't really get into size and prone at all, but upon thinking about it I felt that there should be something to a warlord being able to knock a huge or bigger monster prone each and every turn.

We had this discussion last night when the dwarf warlord was using his powers to knock my primordial naga prone every round with his charge.

To me, a charge by a small dwarf against something that BIG and knocking it off its feet would be pretty much impossible. I don't want to be unfair to the player because he built his character around being able to charge and get extra attacks when knocking his enemy prone, but at the same time trying to think logistically about this is giving me a headache and by knocking down the biggest baddest monsters around it's giving the players a big edge and making the fight too easy in my opinion.

What would you do? Houserule? Stay strictly with the rules? Something else?

I'd appreciate any advice from the other experienced DMs on her.

Thanks,
Trav

 

[the Jester]

Let it be knocked prone, otherwise you're just screwing the warlord.

Ask yourself this before house ruling that he can't do it: Would the same apply to a wizard?

If the answer is "No," you are singling out the warlord unfairly because you haven't done the work to figure out how to justify the effect.

Maybe the warlord knocks the giant over, but maybe he manages to get it to trip over its own feet. Maybe it isn't even "prone" in the plain English sense but suffers the mechanical effects of the condition, including needing to spend a move action to correct its balance (essentially stand up).

But please, stretch your imagination. Don't screw martial characters just because.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Stay with the rules.

To me, a charge by a small dwarf against something that BIG and knocking it off its feet would be pretty much impossible.

Frankly, this is a failing of imagination. Instead, come up with how the dwarf knocks the naga prone - or, even better, ask your player to do it.

EDIT: And I can't XP the Jester yet.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Prone is a tricky condition, like 'blinded' because its name evoke a distinct mental picture of what happens.

If the warlords charge caused 'condition 5', which means the target can either stumble/roll/crawl 5' as a move action or spend a move action to re-orient themselves...most of these questions would disappear.

So, my answer is to let the Dwarf do his thing and describe it appropriate to the target. Snakes get caught in their own coils, oozes get spread out, collasus turtles get off-balance... the mechanical effects apply, just the mental picture varies.


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[Morrus]

Yeah, it's a terminology thing. You have a mental picture of "prone" meaning "falling flat on its ass". Instead, imagine it's a gelatinous cube; it can't fall falt on its ass. But it can suffer some penalties.

The dwarf was starring in Clash of the Titans and wedged a rock in the giant mechanical man's ankle joint. The dragon was speared in the foot and is limping for a round or two.

"Prone" isn't a particularly serious condition (in fact it's even advantageous against ranged attacks). Much better than dazed or stunned, and easily ended with an action (although I do think monster designers kinda forget about prone, and PCs have a much easier time recovering from it with their acrobat's boots and various powers).

Just describe it differently. Or ask your player to describe it differently. If the name *really* bothers you, rename the condition to "Mildly Disadvantaged" or something.

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

Thanks for the advice thus far, I guess it's my mental picture of something so enormous that is my hang-up on this particular condition. I probably just need to throw some other types of monsters at them that can't be knocked prone as easily or things to harass so they don't all gang up on the most powerful thing around (keeping it in check) w/o consequences.

I will make the player(s) do the descriptions from now on for what they are doing to make something get knocked prone, hopefully this will initiate a bit more RP in the fight encounters as well. That is always more fun to me personally when players use their imaginations as to describe a scene and what their characters are doing in the fight instead of only something like, "I'm doing sly flourish."

 

[Riastlin]

As the others have said, it works perfectly fine per RAW and I wouldn't screw over the warlord just because of the mental picture. BTW, from your description you say the dwarf is doing this with a charge each round, a couple of options to combat this are a) OA's when the dwarf moves back to get 2 squares away and b) monsters with threatening reach to smack the dwarf around for his insolence.

Now the latter option should be used semi-sparingly of course since its a lot easier to give a monster threatening reach than it is for PCs to get it, but you get the idea.

 

[BobTheNob]

You have to let it ride.

We have recently swapped and I am not DMing any more. Unfortunately the guy that has taken over keeps thinking the same way, but he doesnt think of consequences. He "perceives" that something shouldnt happen, so he house rules against it.

Its highly frustrating as a player because the end result is that the class/powers/feats you invested in with a reasonable expectation of their efficacy is undermined by opinion.

The way I look at it is that the DM has the right to house-rule, but with the right comes a responsibility to follow a fair degree of due-diligence in terms of the impact that a change would have. If said due-diligence was followed through, there is no way you would have specific ruling about knocked prone vs size. Weird as it is, you cant change for your perception or whim

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

I'm seeing quite a consensus here, I won't be house-ruling against this now that I see how unpopular it would be and unfair to the player who does it. I'll just have to plan for his ability a bit better so that he doesn't get to run rampant all over everything by doing this and trying to use perhaps terrain, slowing effects, ranged strikers, and reach to keep him away but not keep him from doing his thing completely.

I'm more of a player's DM and like to think from the player's perspective before I do anything that would be met with dissatisfaction on the part of the players. If they aren't having fun, no one is. Thanks to everyone who has posted so far, it's been very enlightening on my part to see what other DMs have to say about things like this.

 

[Obryn]

Damn do I hate Kulkor.

FWIW, it's likely high on the nerf list for this month's major Erratupdates. If WotC goes with the popular suggestion, he's probably fine if he's using an actual Kulkor weapon.

-O