Rules Question: Is a lightsaber light?

[comrade raoul]

Since there isn't much mechanical difference between a pair of lightsabers and a single, double-bladed one (except that the double-bladed one costs a feat), I think it's fully appropriate to house-rule a feat that enables you to wield a lightsaber in your off-hand as a light weapon, like this:

Paired Lightsabers [General]
Prerequisite: Dex 15+, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (lightsaber), Two Weapon Fighting, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: When fighting with a lightsaber in each hand, reduce your penalties for fighting with two weapons by 2.

 

[SlimeGuru42]

Just thought i'd pop in. Two weapon fighting is -extremely- more deadly in Star Wars. It may not seem it until you realize that Jedi end up doing 6-8 d8 damage per swing! That can really add up to insane amounts of damage with only a single saber, let alone two. Also, when you take into account the absolute deadliness of critical hits, you get a much higher chance of outright killing someone in one round of combat. In Dungeons and Dragons two weapon figthing is equal to, or less powerful than using a greatsword, but a short sword can't do several d8 damage a hit. Its not a bad choice for a character as it has precedent in books and things, but it's not underpowered as it stands in the least, especially when Jedi Weaponmaster is added to the mix.

But to answer your original question there is a feat called Niman Mastery in one of the hero's guide web enhancements that does what you're looking for. It requires you to have all the two weapon feats (ambidexterity, two weapon fighting, and improved two weapon fighting), proficiency with a lightsaber, and a bab of +8 (although improved two weapon fighting requires +9, odd), and basically lets you treat an offhand lightsaber as light. Doesn't seem to be the most powerful thing, but it's basically +2 to hit with all of your attacks, and other jedi do tend to have high defenses. That, and the small lightsaber as an offhand weapon has always rubbed me the wrong way.

Sorry it was so long winded, hope I helped! ::nervous chuckle::

~Derrick

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Sorry it was so long winded, hope I helped! ::nervous chuckle::

Thanks for the input Derrick, every bit helps!

Just thought i'd pop in. Two weapon fighting is -extremely- more deadly in Star Wars. It may not seem it until you realize that Jedi end up doing 6-8 d8 damage per swing! That can really add up to insane amounts of damage with only a single saber, let alone two.

It's true that Jedi lightsaber damage rises, but against a high Defense, a -4/-4 is still going to reduce damage a lot. From what I'm reading in this thread, the rules basically require you to at least spend three feats to begin to TWF. Ambidex, TWF, and Exotic Weapon Proficiency (either double-bladed lightsaber, or "small" lightsaber.)

Three feats is a lot of feats, particularly when you factor in the fact that a Weapon Master can, at third level, use his Mastery to take Rapid Strikes, which gains him an extra attack with a single saber each round, at the cost of -2 to all attacks.

Since the party is full of single-wielding Jedi as it is, I was willing to pay 2 feats for TWF to diversify a bit, but three feats does not feel worthwhile at all. Better to take Rapid Strikes and pick up Hero's Surge, Energy Dissipation, and Improved Critical: Lightsaber.

*sigh* This thread has been helpful, though in a depressing way. I had been under the mistaken impression that the double-bladed saber was covered under standard lightsaber (which in retrospect, I should have realized wouldn't be the case,) and that the "small" lightsaber (however odd in concept) was also a part of the standard lightsaber proficiency. Taking those extra feat costs into account, TWF just seems far too pricy for the payoff.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Since there isn't much mechanical difference between a pair of lightsabers and a single, double-bladed one (except that the double-bladed one costs a feat), I think it's fully appropriate to house-rule a feat that enables you to wield a lightsaber in your off-hand as a light weapon, like this:

While that does remove the wonky concept of a "small lightsaber" from the mix, it unfortunately still leaves a PC paying three feats for TWF.

Ah, well. I guess I can't have my cake and eat it too.

 

[SlimeGuru42]

I agree that it is a very feat intensive path to follow for a jedi. Its a shame, but you have to start planning for it at level one to make it very effective.

My strongest memory of two-weapon fighting was a fallen jedi with no Sith levels who had 6 attacks a round. 7 if she rapid striked, and 8(!) if she heroic surged. Needless to say, even with the smaller than normal pluses to hit I lost my right forearm and was dealt with in one round of combat. She was built from the ground up to fight with two weapons, though. She was an interesting villian to say the least, and it was a very memorable encounter.

Two weapon fighting has a lot of possibilities, if you do decide to take it I wish you the best, though it is hard to start getting all the feats above first.

Whatever you do, let us know, perhaps we can help again in the future!

~Derrick

 

[Douane]

While that does remove the wonky concept of a "small lightsaber" from the mix, [...]

Actually, I find the concept of a small lightsaber not so "wonky". After all, even small size Jedi would surely like to have a lightsaber they could wield one-handed, which they couldn't do with the standard medium-sized lightsaber.

Using this as an off-hand sweapon doesn't seem so far.


IIRC, Yoda had a lightsaber with a shorter blade, too.

(Not to mention the dual-wielding Sora Bulq from the SW: Mace Windu comic, who had something between a lightdagger and lightshortsword. )


Folkert

 

[Starglim]

Actually, I find the concept of a small lightsaber not so "wonky". After all, even small size Jedi would surely like to have a lightsaber they could wield one-handed, which they couldn't do with the standard medium-sized lightsaber.

Using this as an off-hand weapon doesn't seem so far.


IIRC, Yoda had a lightsaber with a shorter blade, too.

(Not to mention the dual-wielding Sora Bulq from the SW: Mace Windu comic, who had something between a lightdagger and lightshortsword. )

I'd prefer the Niman style route of three feats to wield two full-size lightsabers, mostly because there are very few dual-wielding Jedi characters to be seen in the movies and all of those do use two equal-length lightsabers.

To me, a Jedi Weapon Master experimenting with two short blades is not incompatible, though it should be unique to that character.

Yoda's lightsaber is indeed visibly fitted to his size.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I'd prefer the Niman style route of three feats to wield two full-size lightsabers, mostly because there are very few dual-wielding Jedi characters to be seen in the movies and all of those do use two equal-length lightsabers.

If I were comfortable with paying 3 feats for TWF, then I'd probably go with the Niman feat as well. I like the images of two full-sized sabers, rather than lightsaber and lightshortsword.

Actually, I find the concept of a small lightsaber not so "wonky". After all, even small size Jedi would surely like to have a lightsaber they could wield one-handed, which they couldn't do with the standard medium-sized lightsaber.

Using this as an off-hand sweapon doesn't seem so far.

You make a good point. The sticking point is the feats, though. If my Jedi can use the standard lightsaber proficiency to wield a small lightsaber, then I'd definitely give it a lot of consideration. 2 feats is a lot, but possibly worth it. But if, as has been stated in this thread, a medium character needs an extra feat to wield a short lightsaber, then it becomes a matter of cost being far greater than effect.

I agree that it is a very feat intensive path to follow for a jedi. Its a shame, but you have to start planning for it at level one to make it very effective.

It's not really a matter of a late start. I could probably convince my DM to let me switch out one of my PCs feats, then use the 6th-level feat and 7th-level (weapon master bonus) feat to take all 3 feats by next level. The problem is that I don't think the style is worth three feats. Not with feats like Dissipate Energy, Heroic Surge, Force Mastery, etc. in the game.

I've decided to focus on the single-saber style. I just can't justify the three feats. At Weapon Master 3rd-level I'll pick up Rapid Strikes and gain the extra attack that way.