Rules that never made sense to you?

[fuindordm]

I came to "no house rules" conclusion a long time ago. It gets reinforced every time someone shows me a book full of house rules for their campaign.

My most recent peeve with the 3.5e rules is the rules for a wizard preparing spells out of a borrowed spellbook.

PHB p.178: "A wizard can use a borrowed spellbook to prepare a spell she already knows and has recorded in her own spellbook, but preparation success is not assured."

The game conceit is that while wizards share a common magical language, they don't all use it in the same way. That's why read magic or Use Magic Device is necessary to use a found scroll, for example.

To take a real-world analogy, I know in principle how to calculate the trajectories of photons swirling around a black hole. I had never done it before my second postdoc, however (it wasn't in my spellbook). I could read a paper or book on the subject and understand it, but that's still a far cry from working it out yourself, or writing a program to do it for you (I can read it in someone else's spellbook, but still have to think hard to put into practice, and might make mistakes). After my postdoc I had read many papers on the subject and written my own program to plot the trajectories (now it is in my spellbook), so if I had to do this again (prepare the spell) I could use someone else's notes more easily.

Ben

 

[moritheil]

60+? Easily?

You'll have to explain that to support this POV.

My question too.

Sure, it's *possible*. But "easily"? Nope.

I think this gets into semantics. Basically my point is that it can be done by just about anyone who wants to do it, without bending or breaking the rules, or convincing your DM to rule in your favor on some questionable matters. It doesn't require anything like Pun-Pun (requires sarrash, and requires that all the deities look the other way) or the Iaijutsu master using cursed dust (requires the ability to buy cursed items.)

FWIW, off the top of my head I can only get around AC 56-58, so perhaps saying 60+ was a little extreme. However, I think most would agree that there is little practical difference between the two at that level.

 

[werk]

To take a real-world analogy, I know in principle how to calculate the trajectories of photons swirling around a black hole.

That's a real world analogy? What happened to cats and bags and rock-on-a-sticks?

 

[Nail]

FWIW, off the top of my head I can only get around AC 56-58, so perhaps saying 60+ was a little extreme.

So.....let's see it.

6th level PC, AC 56, "easily".

BTW, "easily" to me means "most PCs could get such an AC without resorting to special circumstances".

 

[moritheil]

So.....let's see it.

6th level PC, AC 56, "easily".

BTW, "easily" to me means "most PCs could get such an AC without resorting to special circumstances".

As I said, semantics. To me, "easily," in the context of powergaming, means "it can be done without special rulings or similar things." I didn't say it could be done for most PCs, but I did say it can be done by most PLAYERS who want it and build accordingly. I stand by my statement.

Want a hint? Here's the breakdown:

10/base 22/nat 6/force 4/shield 2/deflect 4/CE 3/dodge 6/dex = 57 AC.

There's more stuff you can pile on on top of that, if you want to dig around in some splatbooks. Now, this character isn't going to be so hot for anything aside from tanking, but why else would you maximize AC like this? My rule of thumb, as mentioned before, is to stop when I get 5* class level AC, thus freeing up resources so the character can contribute in other ways.

An elven artificer 6 should be able to have that for 4 combats/day . . . easily.

 

[Nail]

Be more specific, please.

 

[moritheil]

Be more specific, please.

What, and give away my trade secrets? Honestly, though, I'm surprised you don't recognize most of those bonuses instantly by the numbers. For example, the natural AC bonus can only come from the well-known alter self spell, with barkskin tossed in for good measure.

EDIT: Though if you, a highly experienced player, are not merely feigning surprise or a lack of understanding, perhaps there is something to the assertion that not everyone can do it. Are you being skeptical just to get me to spill the beans, or are you really skeptical?

 

[mikebr99]

What, and give away my trade secrets? Honestly, though, I'm surprised you don't recognize most of those bonuses instantly by the numbers. For example, the natural AC bonus can only come from the well-known alter self spell, with barkskin tossed in for good measure.

6th level characters should have around 13,000gp... care to point out the items getting you to 57 AC and staying within this limit?

Mike

 

[moritheil]

6th level characters should have around 13,000gp... care to point out the items getting you to 57 AC and staying within this limit?

Mike

Um, in the above case? Artificer. They're all spells from wands (well, the deflection bonus is of course from a well-known infusion. Come on, don't tell me you guys can't instantly recognize 2/deflection AC.)

Don't think narrowly in terms of items - that's a conventional way to go. Especially when I took pains to say it would work for 4/day but didn't guarantee anything else (in a midnight surprise combat such a char may be well and truly screwed.)

 

[Storm Raven]

As I said, semantics. To me, "easily," in the context of powergaming, means "it can be done without special rulings or similar things." I didn't say it could be done for most PCs, but I did say it can be done by most PLAYERS who want it and build accordingly. I stand by my statement.

Want a hint? Here's the breakdown:

10/base 22/nat 6/force 4/shield 2/deflect 4/CE 3/dodge 6/dex = 57 AC.

Well, let's see, you are using Barkskin from a wand, so that's +2 natural armor. I guess you are using alter self from a wand too, so that would be shifting into a . . . annis hag? That's the only creature I can find in the MM that has a +10 natural armor bonus. But that's a monstrous humanoid, and unless you are one too, you can't shift into one. Unless you can show how you get to 22 natural armor, I call shenanigans right here.

For the rest, Force 4 is probably mage armor, which is actually just an armor bonus. Shield 2 would be a normal shield I guess. Deflect 4, I'm not sure, maybe you are thinking the shield spell, but that gives a shield bonus to AC, not a deflection bonus. You'll have to clarify here. I'm not sure what a CE bonus is, so I have no idea where you are getting that +3 to your AC. Dex 6 is pretty much just a 22 dexterity, so you started with an 18 dexterity and cast cat's grace from a wand, which limits that bonus to three minutes.

So, 5 wands, used all at once, can pump you up. Maybe. If you aren't thinking of shifting into an annis hag. And you are getting the deflection bonus from something other than the shield spell.