Ruling needed! Sneak attack in first regular combat round

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

Wow, an argument started and a discussion broke out. I;m honestly impressed.

To another subject, I read a few of these post to say that you are flat footed during the first round of combat even if you are not suprised. I belive you are only flat footed in a suprise round and the first round until you have acted.

 

[IceBear]

Yeah, amazing huh?

I think what those other posts were trying to say is that you are flat-footed until you act. It doesn't matter if you are surprised or not, you are flatfooted in combat until your turn to act comes up. So, if you roll a 1 on Initiative, then you are flatfooted to all attacks in Round #1 until Initiative count 1 come up (barring feats and class abilities as already mentioned).

IceBear

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Right you are IceBear. Good to see you posting again, too.

 

[kreynolds]

Right you are IceBear. Good to see you posting again, too.

IceBear likes to post under various other user accounts for extended periods of time until we miss him, then he miraculously comes back.

 

[firstborne]

It would appear that I'm not quite the master of debate I'd like to be; my own arguments seem to have worked against me. Ah well, such are the vagaries of life. Anyway, as already stated, the answer to both of theoremtank's questions is "yes." Sorry for hijacking your thread there; it shan't happen again.

Scout's honor.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Need a rule ruling please:


Now, if my party and the enemie's party are both aware of each other, then there is no surpirse round and combat starts with the first regular round. If I am the very first person to strike (because of the highest initiative roll), are all the enemies still flat-footed? Meaning, do I get sneak attack damage?

I must point out that there are some circumstances when you are the first person to strike and you *don't* get sneak attack damage because the opponents are not flatfooted. The DMG gives an example of a circumstance when both parties are aware of one another and ready but can't interact immediately, so when interaction starts nobody is still flatfooted - it is as if a round or two have already been used up by both parties taking "delay" actinos, or preparatory spells or "ready" or something.

The general case is that opponents are flatfooted until they act on their initiative in the first round, but the above special case *does* exist, and it would prevent you from getting your sneak attacks.

Of course, there is still flanking

 

[IceBear]

IceBear likes to post under various other user accounts for extended periods of time until we miss him, then he miraculously comes back.

Hehehe - nope - I'd just had been spending most of my time lately on some NWN forums, but I'm tired of all the issues it has so I'm back here where I can Rule 0 issues away Thanks for missing me though...makes me feel appreciated

Now, I just need to find a group again

IceBear

 

[Pielorinho]

Re: Re: Ruling needed! Sneak attack in first regular combat round

The general case is that opponents are flatfooted until they act on their initiative in the first round, but the above special case *does* exist, and it would prevent you from getting your sneak attacks.

Of course, there is still flanking

Icebear, is this the example with orcs on one side of the door and the party on the other side? I remember some example like this, but can't remember exactly how it works.

In any case, it's a good point you make. When I first started playing 3E, we played it that way with almost all combats. I was initially appalled when I realized that opponents were supposed to start combat flatfooted even when they were both aware of one another. But because that flatfootedness is such a perk of being a rogue, I kept the official rules.

Daniel

 

[IceBear]

Hehehe - I think you meant to address Plane Sailing, not me

IceBear

 

[Plane Sailing]

That's right Pie - it is on p61, under "both aware but cannot interact immediately".

No hard feelings about being misattributed as IceBear

Cheers