RuneQuest and Traveller

[Glyfair]

Is the AH version decent?

It's not too far off from RQ2. The AH version was developed by Chaosium before they started the publishing deal with AH. There are some changes, not all of them happy.

Defense has changed (now a roll like parry, rather than a subtraction from your opponent's attack).

Skills are no longer in nice 5% increments. You gain 1d6-1, IIRC when you get a skill gain.

A few subsystems are added. There is a very elegant, but unworkable fatigue system. It is simple in concept*, but unwieldy in practice (fatigue changes every round).

Here is a history of all the RQ versions (including the playtest, unreleased version of RQ4, which is floating around the net somewhere).

Also, here is the best site for getting the RQ reprints (and...has the complete list of all Glorantha products, at least prior to Mongoose).

* Start with a fatigue score, and subtract encumbrance. Each round you check off a fatigue point. When you reach negative you subtract that from all appropriate % rolls.

 

[Cardboard Carnage]

Thanks for those links, I skimmed over the RQ history one and it looks really good. I am going to read it all over tomorrow.

D.

 

[Plane Sailing]

It's not too far off from RQ2. The AH version was developed by Chaosium before they started the publishing deal with AH. There are some changes, not all of them happy.

Defense has changed (now a roll like parry, rather than a subtraction from your opponent's attack).

Skills are no longer in nice 5% increments. You gain 1d6-1, IIRC when you get a skill gain.

A few subsystems are added. There is a very elegant, but unworkable fatigue system. It is simple in concept*, but unwieldy in practice (fatigue changes every round).

Here is a history of all the RQ versions (including the playtest, unreleased version of RQ4, which is floating around the net somewhere).

Also, here is the best site for getting the RQ reprints (and...has the complete list of all Glorantha products, at least prior to Mongoose).

* Start with a fatigue score, and subtract encumbrance. Each round you check off a fatigue point. When you reach negative you subtract that from all appropriate % rolls.

Good summary. We bought RQ3 but never used it because we didn't like the changes you mention above.

In addition, RQ3 largely divorced itself from the Gloranthan heritage, I think it removed Rune Lords and Rune Priest-Lords, it added a new 'sorcery' form of magic which seemed complex and open to abuse. The books were about twice as thick as the RQ2 books, but we felt that the added complications detracted from the game, and the simplifications of things like defence didn't fit with our 'vision' of the game - moved that element towards 'BRP' to no particular end.

BTW, it is on ebay in the UK

Runequest rule book 2nd edition on eBay, also Fantasy, Role-Playing, Wargames Role-Playing, Toys Games (end time 28-Jan-09 12:16:27 GMT)

Cheers

Cheers

 

[Ariosto]

The AH-published version of RQ introduced a lot of changes in detail, some of them often judged not so good even by folks who generally prefer it. It added whole sections of rules, but one can still ignore those for which one has no use. There is in sum an impression of greater complexity, due for instance to approaches that get down to single points rather than the old 4-number ability-score bands and 5% skill increments. Moreover, the physical quality of the rule books was notably inferior (saddle stapled, with flimsy cover stock) apart from one (perhaps only UK) perfect-bound edition. Despite my preference for 1st / 2nd, though, I would be delighted to play in a 3rd edition game!

A few months ago, I bought from several online shops two 1st edition books, a 2nd, Cults of Prax (1st) and Moon Design's Cult Compendium. It took a bit of looking (and might take some waiting in between such periods of wide availability), but I think I got much more "bang for buck" than I would have with the new Mongoose game.

That is an arbitrarily radical departure, and the errata don't "fix" some design choices that I find ill-considered quite apart from being strikingly different. The prices of the books relative to the amount and quality of material also do not seem to me good value.

Mongoose appears to have done a much better job with Traveller, chiefly by restraining the impulse to "improve" it. I have not looked at it in detail, but the new combat system (of which the Classic Traveller line already offered several) stood out as different. No doubt the ship construction rules and other systems are likewise changed. However, I suspect that a great deal of CT material would be easily usable with MGT. On the other hand, the FFE reprints (and the CD of PDFs) are quite good bargains -- and even original LBBs ("little black books") are not very expensive when one can find them. From a player's (rather than collector's) perspective, later printings may be preferable; I don't own The Traveller Book, but I wish I did!

 

[Cardboard Carnage]

understood that the Mongoose RQ makes some changes to the game not everyone likes, but are the 'broken' aspects of it fixed with the errata? I understand the system itself is a bit different, with some changes that are not liked by some players, but are the broken things taken care of, or not?

I've decided to go with the Mongoose Traveller, and pick up those CD's of the Classic Traveller that Marc Miller has, just to get for my own personal reference since they are the ones I had myself as a kid... but I'm still up in the air on RQ. I would love to get the 2nd edition, because I played it myself, but I am not having much luck tracking down anything at the moment... 3rd edition sounds like it would be decent as well, but once again, not easy to track down (and I can remember 5+ years ago checking ebay once and seen tons of the AH RuneQuest boxed sets for fair prices, I wish I had snagged them!).

I thought I read there is a digital version of a 4e RQ that wasn't officially released, is that something that is obtainable on the net anywhere?

D.

 

[Glyfair]

I thought I read there is a digital version of a 4e RQ that wasn't officially released, is that something that is obtainable on the net anywhere?

It was out there somewhere at one time. The problem with google right now is that 4th edition queries tend to get you buried in D&D sites that mention Runequest.

Just as a lark, here is Runequest Slayers. That is the system that Avalon Hill was going to release after they broke with Chaosium (and ended up keeping the rights to the Runequest name). Note it has NOTHING to do with any other version of RQ. It is free, though.

 

[Plane Sailing]

but I'm still up in the air on RQ. I would love to get the 2nd edition, because I played it myself, but I am not having much luck tracking down anything at the moment...

Do you have a FLGS? If you have it would definitely be worth having a thumb through of the recent Basic Role Playing by Chaosium: Chaosium Inc.

It is much closer to RQ2 than RQ3 was, and would certainly be my first choice for running a RQ game if I didn't have my old, threadbare RQ2 rules. Even then, there are some things I'd borrow from it.

Cheers

 

[Ariosto]

I haven't picked up the new BRP book yet, but I was in on the playtesting and from what I've read the final development put a real polish on it. One reason the rules are closer than Mongoose's is that Chaosium owns the copyrights on the previous editions of RQ (but not the trademark to the name, or any Glorantha rights). That's great for reproducing the old systems, or your own vision of "RQ IV" -- if you know what you're trying to match in the first place!

Mongoose had to "reverse engineer" their version of the game, without the benefit of something like the OGL and SRD that helped in making OSRIC and other "retro-clones." On top of that, sloppiness seems a hallmark of Mongoose's in-house game development (versus publication of works created elsewhere, such as Dragon Warriors). The Companion is probably a must-have item; there may be corrections in other supplements; and later printings may be better.

Mongoose's Glorantha material is set in the Second Age, prior to the era of the Hero Wars. Condradictions in "canon" are par for the course, given Greg Stafford's delight in presenting the world through the eyes of unreliable sources with their own agendas (like much real-world history). The treatment of many core aspects (such as the Runes, IIRC) may be needlessly confusing, though.

The reprints of RQ II supplements from Moon Designs are wonderful. The AH-published works are IMO inferior, but there's some nifty stuff when they go beyond being retreads -- and the Ken Rolston renaissance produced nice reworkings (plus new scenarios) in River of Cradles and Sun County.

There was very little geography and history in the old RQ basic rule book. The key touchstones therein (that one might miss as context for supplements) would be spells and monsters.

 

[Plane Sailing]

There was very little geography and history in the old RQ basic rule book. The key touchstones therein (that one might miss as context for supplements) would be spells and monsters.

True - although one of the wonderful things it had was the map of dragon pass filled with evocative names - for us that was the springboard for so many different adventures!

 

[Ariosto]

I think that classic Dragon Pass map is among those available for free download from Issaries, Inc.. Try glorantha.com.