D&D 5E Running 5e at high Levels

[DinoInDisguise]

This is a great way to play. Capping things at 12th level is smart too because of that last ASI/Feat + cutting off 7th level+ spells. I think I'm going to start playing more like this! Thanks!

I'm glad someone finds it helpful.

Ponder a hypothetical here. You have two fighters in a party with different backstories and characters. This approach allows you to, in essence, custom build their progression on the fly. Those two players could end up with very different builds by the end of the campaign. And you can do this without home-brewing classes.

The obvious con here is harder balancing. But 5e is so elegant in its progression with proficiency bonuses and ASI improving ability modifiers, that its really easy to keep the power progression similar. For example an item that gives +2 to a stat is, in almost all respects, the same as an ASI. A weapon with a +1 to hit, or a +1 to spell DC, is very similar to a proficiency bonus increase.

Don't take it incorrectly, you don't have to wait until level 12 to do this. Such an item at level 3 might make that character the equivalent of a level 4 PC, What order you put items vs levels is up to you, I generally rush to level 3 for sub-class purposes though.

 

[Shardstone]

I'm glad someone finds it helpful.

Ponder a hypothetical here. You have two fighters in a party with different backstories and characters. This approach allows you to, in essence, custom build their progression on the fly. Those two players could end up with very different builds by the end of the campaign. And you can do this without home-brewing classes.

The obvious con here is harder balancing. But 5e is so elegant in its progression with proficiency bonuses and ASI improving ability modifiers, that its really easy to keep the power progression similar. For example an item that gives +2 to a stat is, in almost all respects, the same as an ASI. A weapon with a +1 to hit, or a +1 to spell DC, is very similar to a proficiency bonus increase.

Don't take it incorrectly, you don't have to wait until level 12 to do this. Such an item at level 3 might make that character the equivalent of a level 4 PC, What order you put items vs levels is up to you, I generally rush to level 3 for sub-class purposes though.

I often give low level players legendary magic items or artifacts. One I talk about oftne here is two campaigns where I gave the rogues a dagger that was really Blackrazor. I'm big into this kind of stuff!

 

[Starfox]

Oh, and while we're on the subject, thanks to many of 5e's revisions to spells and inter-class balance, high level 5e is MUCH easier to run than PF1 at the same levels and has fewer issues than I remember even 12th level play in AD&D. So while there are challenges, I'm finding them so much more manageable than the previous editions I've run.

Most people say this, but it is not my experience.

I've run 3.5 and Pathfinder 1 to level 20 (and beyond for Wrath of the Righteous) and am now gamemastering 5E at level 12. I find the former worked quite well all the way to 20, whereas 5E is starting to feel like it has a lot of friction. My 5E party in order from weakest to strongest are a bard, an evoker, a fighter, an artificer, and a bladesinger/fighter, and the power difference is too high in my opinion. Some of this is players picking less optimized options, but the rules could be better. The difference in hit points, saving throws, and above all AC are more of a problem for us in 5E than in those earlier games - tough still not as bad as 4E. The massive hps monsters have also feel a bit gridny, especially when the bladesinger is not around.

The attunement mechanism in particular creates a conflict between concept and combat efficiency. With only three attuned items, some players will use them to expand on their roleplay and others will expand their combat ability.

 

[Starfox]

I don't play 5e anymore but GMed two long 1-20 campaigns. And looking back, I wish I had switched to a dedicated supers system after level 14ish. Neither monster abilities (boring at the best of times) nor the rules or combat system really work at the highest levels when the players become true superheroes. And I don't blame anyone - a game system that is pretty good for farmers punching goblins and the lvl 3-12 sweet spot range doesn't have to work for supers play. But I think a superhero system way of building both characters and opposition would be better for tier 4 play.

The super games I've tried never really worked well. I haven't played a lot of them tough. Champions, Mutants and Masterminds, Dream Park, and a really old one where your character was supposed to be yourself (with stat estimations) plus superpowers. All of them felt slow, clunky, and poorly balanced to me. Dream park was probably the best one because it was so streamlined, but we never played a true superhero game there.

Maybe this should be the subject of another thread. Please go there if you wish to comment in depth.

 

[ECMO3]

DOMM went to 20th level, so high level WOTC campaign has been around a while.

That said I played my first 5E campaign to 20th level in 2022 and since then I completed a total of 4 1-20 campaigns, played in an above 20th level one-shot (20th level with several epic boons for each PC) and I am in the middle of my 5th 1-20.

Although we had power issues (and a 6 hour long combat spanning multiple sessions) overall it was not much worse than at low level, overall it was not a big deal.