Running a novel-style epic fantasy campaign - how would you do it?

[Mercurius]

I'm dabbling with starting up a new campaign with my group at some point - at least some months away, maybe a year, but I wanted to play with ideas. I've always wanted to run a game modeled after classic epic fantasy quest stories. By "epic fantasy quest" I mean your garden-variety, Tolkien offspring: You know, a group of companions called to adventure, an Ancient Evil re-awakening, a quest or three for a magic item of some kind, etc.

So how would you do this? Has anyone run this sort of campaign? And how do you do it without railroading too much? I'd be running 4E, but I don't think the conversation has to exclude other games.

Some thoughts as I write this:

First of all, 4E doesn't really support the "off the farm" type adventurer so I'd have to rig something up. I see three possible starting points:

• Off the Farm: The characters effectively start at "0 level." They might have half HP, no classes, feats, or powers (or they might have a rudimentary class with a single at-will power). I would run them through a brief intro adventure, at the end of which they would be 1st level. This would be the equivalent of the Trollocs attacking Two Rivers, or fleeing the Shire, going to visit Old Ben Kenobi, etc.
• New Adventurers: The characters start at 1st level, although are all green to adventuring. Perhaps they are old friends who went off to receive various trainings and reunited at their favorite inn. This could be a variant on the Dragonlance approach except starting them at 1st level (which, in 4E, is closer to what the Dragonlance characters were as AD&D levels around 3-5).
• Seasoned Adventurers: This would be closer to Dragonlance - they've all had a few adventures, perhaps are reuniting when the fit hits the shan. Maybe they'd be 3-5 level.

Some thoughts for tiered campaigning:

Heroic
Intro sequence - home is attacked, first quest; the equivalent of "book one" of a trilogy. At the end the characters think they defeat the evil but what they don't realize is that it was just a servant of a greater evil and that this servant, perhaps through the PCs doings, was able to awaken that Ancient Evil. Which leads to...

Paragon
Maybe a few years later, all seems well in the land. Now minor heroes, the characters are living the good life, perhaps as lords of a land. Suddenly the Ancient Evil re-appears, darkness falls over the land, the Empire Strikes Back, etc. The characters go on a long quest to recover some artifact or series of artifacts, traveling through a fallen and hostile land to the ends of the world.

Epic
Having recovered the artifact(s), the characters travel to the heart of darkness and face the Ancient Evil.

Thoughts?

 

[fireinthedust]

what do you mean by novel-style? That's risky. You're close to narrating your players' actions if you're not careful.

I'd say run it like a standard game. Your level 0 idea sounds good: give them X hp, and just basic attacks (which is what earlier editions used, primarily). No weapons other than simple ones (whatever mages can use), and give them equipment.

Skills: you can still train in non-class skills in 4e, right? So go with that. Or give them a Profession skill, in addition to whatever skills they may pick when they get a class.

When they reach level one, they need to have been trained. Get them to find a mentor, or stumble onto "the chamber of destiny" that powers them up (sort of like finding their "true potential" and making it come out: ie character class). Then go with level 1+

The above level 0 concept I wrote a better version of in my Wheel of Time Pathfinder group, here on ENworld.


Sounds good enough to me.

Remember: 4e isn't a simulationist edition, it's a gamist edition. If you want a simulation, go Pathfinder. Enjoy the 4e-isms of 4e, and feel free to let them become a different kind of stat block when they get that first level. The idea of 4e is that any classed characters are fantasy superheroes of a sort. Enjoy that. A level 0 will bring that out because you're going to suddenly give them awesome class abilities/powers.

 

[Mark CMG]

Run Dragonlance. Even if you have to convert it, much of the work will have been done for you. Either you and your players will enjoy the experience and you will then have the experience to create one on your own or your group and you will come to dislike that style of play. There seems to be little middle ground regarding DL.

 

[pneumatik]

You may have trouble if you start them at level 0. Despite being "fresh off the farm", most fantasy epic protagonists are usually pretty competent. They act like they're not ready and are all overwhelmed, but come the first fight they do pretty well. I think level one 4E PCs are actually pretty close to the ideal. Just say that they haven't used their powers before and you'll be all set.

 

[Glade Riven]

Every member in the Fellowship of the Ring had levels in something, except maybe the hobbits. I also wouldn't necessarally lable Pathfinder as "Simulationist" - it is gamest in it's own unique way from 4e, but still gamest.

One thing a freind and former DM of mine did once was have us (the players) take a level of an NPC class (this was under 3.5) representing our background before becoming adventurers. Wouldn't work under 4e, though.

The importaint thing is to not railroad it - remember, classic epic fantasy often includes unusual side tracks that somehow tie back into the main plot.

 

[LostSoul]

My first thought is "Burning Wheeeeel!"

My second thought is that it's pretty likely that BW PCs will end up fighting each other at some point. You can try to control it ("you" being the game group) but, in my experience, the PCs start to take on a life of their own and start demanding things from you...

My third thought is that you probably want to run D&D, so I don't know how much help my first two thoughts are. I should rethink the whole thing.

Fourth thought: Running 4E, you want to link the "story points" into the currency of the game. I think a "Quest-XP-Only" advancement scheme might do this. The DM's job would be to provide enough different Quests that choosing one over another is a real, meaningful choice, giving the players control over the story. I think you can still use the basic framework you've got, but I have a feeling you'll be surprised by the end of the first "book" in the trilogy.

 

[Mercurius]

By "novel-style" I simply meant a similar story line to classic epic fantasy quests.

Another thought that occurred to me was to give the semblance of a sandbox for Heroic tier, then weave threads together based upon their choices, then the main story line occurs in Paragon and culminates in Epic.

Thanks for the replies - some good ideas.

 

[Haltherrion]

When I try to create a campaign like that, I start with the big idea: what is this epic fantasy adventure all about?

I might start with a setting first and play with it until I can fit an appropriate epic adventure into the world. Or I might start with a villain or situation and build a setting around it. But the two go hand and hand for me: epic (to me) requires a big stage and a grand threat. The two work best when developed together.

Once I have a setting and a threat, I will look to create an appropriate starting point. One thing I am never afraid to do is to start the campaign at higher than first level. Except in fantasy, most of our heroes in movies and lit start well established in some manner. They may be down and trying to prove themselves but they aren't green farmboys with little but ambition to build on.

I don't think you have to start at level 1 to achieve epic. Nor does the game even have to be driven by level advancement. In fact, many "epic" concepts play out over a fairly short period of time. And shoe-horning a lot of levels into that six or 12 month period can be quite awkward and somewhat spoil the effect.

 

[Gilladian]

Think narrow-wide-narrow.

Start with a fairly narrow set up. No matter whether 3rd or 4th ed. or another game system, focus on a small palette of options at the beginning. Maybe two or three major choices of route early on (do they go to the ruins to fight goblins and rescue npcs from slavery, or do they help the local miners resist an evil overseer, or do they ride cross-country to petition the Duke for aid?) This gives you an idea of their basic outlook as a group, and lets you know where they want to go overall. In these levels, they can see their greater foes and begin to hate/fear them, but not really work against any but the least of them.

In the middle range of levels, give them a much wider array of possible options; follow up and present them with the results of their decisions in round one: the miners are now their own bosses, but a nasty cult has taken root in nearby villages, and the Duke has been overthrown by his rival. Can they right these wrongs, or do they even want to try? Let them move on if things aren't to their liking here, but always refer back. Here's where they might quest for power, and begin to really build a hatred for the big bad evil powers. And draw notice down upon themselves.

In the final segment of the game, pull back down to a narrow focus. They have found out what the villain's ultimate goal and needs are. They can focus on stopping him. They can set out for Mount Doom, abandoning hope of all other options. Narrow, tighten focus and draw all threads together. Go back to the very first choices they made, and make them important to the final stages. Those miners they rescued? Are now producing the very ore that will create the only weapon capable of slaying the foe's ultimate monster guardian. And the cultists are trying to stop them, because they worship it. Etc...

 

[kigmatzomat]

I agree with Gilladian. I've run "classic epic" campaigns in 2nd and 3rd Ed that each ran from ~1st level until ~20th level and his "narrow-wide-narrow" encapsulates the overall plot arcs.

You want to start in a small setting to introduce the world to the players, get your own feet wet, work out the kinks, and keep the focus really on the characters.

After that they start to wander farther out or you give them reasons to venture farther afield and start introducing the wider world. At this point the players should be driving the campaign, usually having come up with a completely different, but perfectly valid, overall approach to solving the problem than anything you had come up with.

Then you start bringing it together as allies made in the beginning become committed to the heroes and "The PCs' Plan" takes on a life of its own, rumbling towards the ultimate conclusion. The BBEG ratchets up the urgency by attacking and possibly killing off some of the allies, helping to narrow the focus as the world seems to get smaller.