D&D 4E Running Commentary on Rel's 4e Campaign (Complete 8/2/10)

[tomBitonti]

Hi,

Cool idea (re: the Skill Challenge for escaping the mine). I was wondering if you could comment on whether the challenge could be failed, other than a TPK at some point because of too many encounters. That is, the challenge seems to have changed the skill challenge rule (X successes before Y failures) to (X successes, any failure entails an encounter or an expenditure of resources). I think that's cool, and that that modified rule works very well for some challenges, so I'm hoping that there could be a discussion of that difference.

Thx!

TomB

 

[Rel]

Hi,

Cool idea (re: the Skill Challenge for escaping the mine). I was wondering if you could comment on whether the challenge could be failed, other than a TPK at some point because of too many encounters. That is, the challenge seems to have changed the skill challenge rule (X successes before Y failures) to (X successes, any failure entails an encounter or an expenditure of resources). I think that's cool, and that that modified rule works very well for some challenges, so I'm hoping that there could be a discussion of that difference.

Thx!

TomB

You know, I honestly didn't think of it in exactly that way when designing the challenge but you're right. If you think about it it's pretty much impossible to fail getting out of the mine. It doesn't go on forever and eventually, through trial and error if nothing else, they'd make it out.

Of course two things would start to be a problem:

First, they'd have to fight every critter in the house. If you go down every single corridor then it stands to reason that you'd encounter all the inhabitants. I guess it's possible that they might strike some sort of deal with them eventually ("Lead us out of here and we won't kill any more of you."). But they'd certainly have to do a lot of extra fighting.

The other problem is time. Due to the fact that they are down amongst the poisonous, mutating Mist, they needed to get out before the began to suffer its effects. As it was it they just made it out before they ran out of components to make the Mist Milk that was protecting them from its effects.

So, had they accumulated enough failures, they'd not only be beat down but they'd end up having to rest more, using up precious time to make their escape. Had they failed enough times then I'd probably need to rule that even failures were bringing them closer to the exit, just that they'd be stumbling across more and more bad guys the whole way.

Finally I'll say that my general approach to skill challenges is pretty loose. I get that the RAW treats them will all the design elements of a combat encounter. This encourages you to list out appropriate skills, consider how many successes before how many failures would be appropriate, etc. I don't really do much of that. I think about them in very broad terms of what the PC's will want to accomplish, what'll happen if they fail and what points of interest to include along the way.

 

[Joshua Randall]

I also have to consider my choice of daily at level 2.

The paladin level 2 utility powers are indeed crap.

Astral Speech (+4 Diplomacy) is probably the least crappy. And that shows just how bad they are.

When you get to 8th level you can pick up the swap-a-utility-power multiclass feat (assuming you already have the base multiclass feat). Cleric, fighter, and warlord all have good level 2 utilities.

 

[Connorsrpg]

Being a DM, I too love threads like this.

First 4E campaign and I did a story hour on a website, but few read it and players knew all that stuff anyway

Maybe I will do something similar with new campaign...if there is enough interest in this.

This is very helpful for a DM. I have run similar skill challenges as you have outlined (PCs had to find lost temple in a thick forest). Your world seems cool, though I need to read up on several of your house rules. (We also have a grittier healing mech - you certainly don;t start each day at full health)

I really appreciate your notes on reskinning monsters. 4E is great for that.

Cheers, C

 

[Riggs]

The paladin level 2 utility powers are indeed crap.

Astral Speech (+4 Diplomacy) is probably the least crappy. And that shows just how bad they are.

When you get to 8th level you can pick up the swap-a-utility-power multiclass feat (assuming you already have the base multiclass feat). Cleric, fighter, and warlord all have good level 2 utilities.

Too true, they blow, and Dailies too....

As an Avenging Paladin, with no shield, I am leaning towards the static +1 AC zone daily. The Cleric has a much better Encounter power, but they can stack I think and I really have little else to go with.
The Daily that allows me to take a hit that was on an ally, they must be adjacent to me, and since I am taking loads of damage already, that won't happen just right too often. If the casters step in and need the save then sure, but that is rare at best I think.
The +4 Diplomacy is not so great just because mine is not the only Charismatic character and so no real need to stack that, especially since my guy is "Formal/Bad" cop to the cleric's "Informal/Good" cop. So roughly half the time (in polite company or with scum) I'll get to use it and I'm trained.
So back to the "beats nothing" zone of +1. It won't do any harm and could save the day at times maybe.

 

[Rel]

The Cleric has a much better Encounter power, but they can stack I think and I really have little else to go with.

Hers is a Daily too so once it is spent then yours is the best game in town.

 

[Riggs]

Hers is a Daily too so once it is spent then yours is the best game in town.

Oh, I thought it was said hers was Encounter. Well I took it anyway. The updated file is in your email

 

[Kinneus]

Too true, they blow, and Dailies too....

As an Avenging Paladin, with no shield, I am leaning towards the static +1 AC zone daily. The Cleric has a much better Encounter power, but they can stack I think and I really have little else to go with.
The Daily that allows me to take a hit that was on an ally, they must be adjacent to me, and since I am taking loads of damage already, that won't happen just right too often. If the casters step in and need the save then sure, but that is rare at best I think.
The +4 Diplomacy is not so great just because mine is not the only Charismatic character and so no real need to stack that, especially since my guy is "Formal/Bad" cop to the cleric's "Informal/Good" cop. So roughly half the time (in polite company or with scum) I'll get to use it and I'm trained.
So back to the "beats nothing" zone of +1. It won't do any harm and could save the day at times maybe.

I'm currently playing a level 3 Paladin, and I've been very happy with Sacred Circle. "Until end of encounter" buffs are pretty rare at that level, and my party just loves it.
It's not always ideal, though. Don't use it when you're up against a dragon, for instance; you don't want to encourage your party to gather together in one tasty, firebreath-shaped clump.

 

[Celebrim]

I'm enjoying your encounter design. Very thoughtful. I'm particularly impressed by the fight with the wraith and the elevator combat.

You may have mentioned it, but about how long is each session?

 

[Riggs]

I went ahead and took Sacred Circle, and although I still think it's the best option, I hate that it is a standard action. It's hard to tell an Avenging Paladin of Ryukaar to rush up to the evil Mist Thingy and then not attack it so I can have a +1AC. It kinda feels like when a cartoon character puts up an umbrella as an anvil s about to fall on his head. But there will be times for it. I'm not complaining about any bonuses, just the flavor/application in this case given my character.

We usually play about 5 hours a shot. There's a fair bit of BSing and messing around at times, but we do get on with it.