Running KotS with 7-8 players

[DMDanW]

I will be starting KotS in a couple of weeks and it crossed my mind that I may need to scale up the encounters. I have a group that ranges from 5 to 8 players on any given night, and I thought that since it was written for 5 characters, it may be a breeze for 8 characters.

My first thought was to just throw in more minions to up the body count, but I wanted to see what you folks out there would do in a situation such as mine.

As for the players, they are each playing one of the pre-gens, plus the Warllord pre-gen and 1 extra wizard so far. 1 player has not choosen yet, but probably fighter or rouge would be my guess.

Thanks all.

 

[Bayonet_Chris]

Encounter experience

Just multiply the encounter experience by 1.6 and add in (roughly) that many creatures. Certain fights you might need to hold back on (like the kobold lair 2 - by the book that's adding 750 additional XP worth of monsters between waves 1 and 2).

Of course, the encounters starting with area 4 of the keep look to be scaled towards parties that have gained second level. Here is a suggestion by the numbers. I think it should be massaged a bit depending on how the party seems to be handling things. Also keep in mind that encounters in the book after the "Level Up" heading are probably constructed assuming the party has gained a level, so adjust accordingly if that is not the case.

On the road: +2 dragonshields
Ambush: +2 Skirmishers, +1 Dragonshield
Kobold Lair 1: +1 of everything
Kobold Lair 2: +3 skirmishers, +4 minions (wave 1), +2 dragonshilelds (wave 2) - careful with this
Burial Site - +2 drakes, +1 halfling
Area 1: +4 goblin warriors
Area 2: +3 sharpshooters
Area 3: +2 drakes, +1 sharpshooter

ASSUMES LEVEL 2*
Area 4*: +5 goblin warriors, +1 minion
Area 5*: +1 zombie, +10 minions
Area 6*: +2 zombies
Area 7*: +2 skeletons
Area 8*: Increase level or leave alone
Area 9*: +1 jelly, +3 rats
Area 10*: +1 adult, +3 young, +2 minions (careful on this one too)
Area 11*: Increase level or leave alone
Interlude 3*: +3 zombies
Area 12*: +2 soldiers, +2 minions, +1 spider

ASSUMES LEVEL 3**
Area 13**: 2 soldiers, 1 archer
Area 14**: 2 soldiers, 5 grunts
Area 15**: 3 corpses
Area 16**: Increase level or leave alone
Area 17**: ghoul, minion, 3 zombies
Area 18**: 2 berserkers, 1 creeper, 1 minion
Area 19**: 2 wights, 3 skeletons (careful)

 

[silentounce]

I will be starting KotS in a couple of weeks and it crossed my mind that I may need to scale up the encounters. I have a group that ranges from 5 to 8 players on any given night, and I thought that since it was written for 5 characters, it may be a breeze for 8 characters.

My first thought was to just throw in more minions to up the body count, but I wanted to see what you folks out there would do in a situation such as mine.

As for the players, they are each playing one of the pre-gens, plus the Warllord pre-gen and 1 extra wizard so far. 1 player has not choosen yet, but probably fighter or rouge would be my guess.

Thanks all.

Actually, to make it a bit easier than the above, granted, he did all the work for you. But if you want to fudge stuff yourself. Just divide each encounter XP total in half and add enough monsters of the same type to equal that amount. One thing I definitely wouldn't do is add minions, because they give you the least bang for the buck! Unless you want massive battles managing a dozen creatures and 7-8 PCs. That's bound to slow things down quite a bit and make people bored, especially with players trying a new system. I'd try to add as few monsters that would get me to the desired XP total as possible. Also, there should at least be two of the leader types in that large of a group, otherwise characters are bound to go down and not come back up.

 

[Bartoneus]

Honestly, I ran half of the first floor of the Keep last night with 7 players WITHOUT much scaling up at all and each encounter still lasted a good amount of time. Granted they were 1st level characters going into 2nd level encounters, even the first one with the few goblins took them a little bit of time.

I'd suggest starting with just what's there, and if they appear to be smashing through everything way too quickly then it's really easy to have more minions or one-two more normal monsters show up mid-combat.

 

[Rechan]

My advice is actually to add a few different monsters into the fight, so it feels less like Yet Another X.

For instance, when you get the Core MM, give the kobolds some scorpions (Level 1 soldier). In the 2nd encounter, drop a kobold slyblade (Lvl 4 Lurker).

Lair 1 Use a Rockslide (1 Lurker trap) or Scything Blade (Lvl 4 Lurker trap); kobolds have +2 to defenses vs traps, and they're freakin' kobolds, give'm traps! Sprinkle a few minions and skirmishers, maybe even a Wyrmpriest here. Plus either a Fire beetle (lvl 1 brute) or a scorpion.

Lair 2 Irontooth is fine as he is (having caused several TPKs). Either a Slyblade or a dragonshield would make the encounter harder.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I find myself agreeing with Rechan. Add some other factors. Overall, the encounters are pretty tough in KotS (I like 'em, but they're tough.)

Here's the rules if you don't know 'em:

First level PCs are "worth" 100 XP in a balanced fight. 2nd levels are "worth" 125. *You'll note its the same as the XP of a normal monster of the same level.)

SO if you have 7 level ones a balanced fight is 700 XP. If you have six level twos (as I do) it's 750. If you have 10 level ones and two level 2s it's 1250. And so on.. PC's can "handle" up to about half again if they use up lots of resources, and their dice roll about average. Anything above that is dangerous.

So if you have 7 level ones (700XP as we said before) they are pretty "safe" up to 1050 barring bad luck or tactics. Above that they better pull out all the stops and get lucky.

The module is balanced at 5 characters. 500xp to start, 625 later in the keep, and 750 at the end, so you will note by the actual encounters, it's scaled tough quite a bit of the time.

So if you want an approximation of what the designers were going for, just add 100 XP per extra PC you have (above 5) to every encounter, and then 125 XP when they are level 2, and 150 each at level 3. This will scale it well without making it deadly. I wouldn't bother scaling the solo monsters, as they are pretty good as is.

Fitz

 

[DMDanW]

Thanks everyone.

Fitz, your advice sounds quite simple and logical, and easy enough to do on the fly depending on the amount of players who show up for any given session.

Odds are I will have my Core rulebook set befor we actaully get started on KotS, but I am the type who likes to be prepared well in advance.